CZ EVO S1 Scorpion *UPDATE*

Non restricted with a light fake suppressor that looks like the one on the video would be great. I would buy one in an instant. Still think I may get a restricted one anyways. Great price on them
 
Sarge_DL said:
Ya, many of you have probably seen this vidoe already but here it is again. I'm all Evo over the MPX. If I'm counting my pennies correctly.... The MPX with a total of 5 mags and a small red dot sight will be close to $3,000 CAD, the Evo with 5 mags and RDS should be closer to $2,000?

[youtube]sS0rEazh1kI[/youtube]
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Why choose? Get both...I did! I'm wanting to do a comparison when they're both in hand. Wifey has already said she isn't a fan of all the polymer on the CZ but then she's a bit of a snob (consumer wise). We'll see...
 
Tyler Durden said:
You're missing the point. As long as a rifle variant exists and shares a common mag, they will always be limited to 5 rounds under the 'dual use' designation. That is, unless we can get that changed. But until then, 'not importing' rifle variants won't change anything. It doesn't matter if none have been brought in, if they exist, then they can be potentually available. And if they already have a rifle FRT, like the Evo does, then forget about it... it's 5 rounds automatically.
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There are only FRTs for those guns submitted to the RCMP Firearms Lab. They're not going out of their way to classify firearms that they don't have in their possession - how could they? Distributors submit samples to the laboratory for analysis and classification prior to buying and bringing in retail quantities. This process takes years.

The answer is to anticipate what the market wants and selectively submit samples to the laboratory. Right now, everyone's clamouring for Non-restricted everything, so this decision makes sense - import both, who cares if it's limited to five rounds because the NR community is the loudest. I'm providing a counter-narrative, which is to ONLY SUBMIT THE PISTOL VARIANT, such that it is the only commercially available version in Canada.
 
PaveHammer said:
There are only FRTs for those guns submitted to the RCMP Firearms Lab. They're not going out of their way to classify firearms that they don't have in their possession - how could they? Distributors submit samples to the laboratory for analysis and classification prior to buying and bringing in retail quantities. This process takes years.

The answer is to anticipate what the market wants and selectively submit samples to the laboratory. Right now, everyone's clamouring for Non-restricted everything, so this decision makes sense - import both, who cares if it's limited to five rounds because the NR community is the loudest. I'm providing a counter-narrative, which is to ONLY SUBMIT THE PISTOL VARIANT, such that it is the only commercially available version in Canada.
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I only mention the FRT as that basically makes it automatic, as in, there is no point in seeking clarification as some vendors have said they were doing. But that said, I'm not sure it makes a difference. Even if there is no FRT for the rifle variant, if it exists, it gives the lab the excuse to use the 'dual use' desigantion. I could be wrong, maybe fenceline or shawn can join in here and clarify/confirm either way.

I will say though, if it turns out that if having no FRT for the rifle variant of a firearm means that we can have 10 round mags for the pistol variant, it still won't make any difference. It only takes one person to want to bring in the rifle variant to kill the 10 round mags for everyone, and you know full well it would happen. If the rifle variant exists, someone will want it and they'll try to bring it in, regardless of how it affects the pistol mags. They'll do it because they're too dumb and don't know the impact of their actions, or they know full well and and just don't care because they are selfish and ignorant.

Either way, 'dual use' is here for now and because of it, we're stuck with 5 round mags on these types of guns. We just have to accept it, until there is a change in law, policy, or the gov't.
 
PaveHammer said:
There are only FRTs for those guns submitted to the RCMP Firearms Lab. They're not going out of their way to classify firearms that they don't have in their possession - how could they? Distributors submit samples to the laboratory for analysis and classification prior to buying and bringing in retail quantities. This process takes years.

The answer is to anticipate what the market wants and selectively submit samples to the laboratory. Right now, everyone's clamouring for Non-restricted everything, so this decision makes sense - import both, who cares if it's limited to five rounds because the NR community is the loudest. I'm providing a counter-narrative, which is to ONLY SUBMIT THE PISTOL VARIANT, such that it is the only commercially available version in Canada.
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The EVO 3 S1 is a commercial variant (CV) of a SMG (Sub Machine Gun) it matters little on barrel length or if you want to call her a pistol or carbine as she uses SMG mags so the limit is five. We went through this with the B&T TP9 with no success.
 
You sure on this? Isn't there a pistol version frt and a carbine version frt?


Tyler Durden said:
If you buy it with a stock and register it as a restricted short barreled rifle, then later on, if you can find an 18.6" barrel, you can re-barrel the gun and de-register it as non-restricted.

If you buy without a stock and register as a pistol, then you can't change it to an NR later, even with the 18.6" barrel.
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Patt08 said:
You sure on this? Isn't there a pistol version frt and a carbine version frt?
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I think 'Tyler Durden' is right. Fenceline says the same thing;

fenceline said:
Can you make a handgun go from restricted to non restricted?

No.

Can you make a rifle into a handgun and doom it to restricted forever status? Yes.

If selling these without a stock, they are handguns. Much like how they would be considered in the US to avoid the SBR laws down south.

I'm not trying to poke the bear. Simply posing a cautionary set of circumstances that no one wants to see.

Humbly, I would very much suggest that stocks be sold with these and they be registered as commercial versions (of the rifle variety), not handguns.

There are two frt entries. CV and handgun. Hence the worry.

If one wanted to keep it restricted forever it won't matter. You can put a stock on a pistol and nobody cares. But if it were registered as a handgun, adding the 18.5 barrel wouldn't get it into NR status, as once a handgun always one. And all handguns stay restricted.
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Think Thompson Contender pistol. You can put a rifle stock on it and buy a longer barrel and it always stays a pistol. But you could buy the same basic gun in rifle designation and you are good to go. Its a rifle.
 
Mr Wolverine said:
I was ready to place an order with CZ for an 18.6 inch barrel model but their salesmen tells me they are not interested in pursuing this. In all honesty the Scorpion is proving so successful that they (CZ) are struggling to keep up with world wide orders and the few 18.6 inched models we would require would not make it cost effective for CZ to interrupt their production. We would have to look at having an after market barrel made up and fitted, this would not be cheap. I would be interested in hearing from any gunsmith who could offer this service.
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Any info on how the barrel is retained in these?
 
PaveHammer said:
My major concern is that when we import firearms like this as rifles and NOT as pistols, we forever lose the opportunity to sell them with 10 round magazines.
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As was noted earlier in the thread, anyone could apply to import the rifle variant and the 5rnd restriction would then be imposed on all the people using 10rnds.

Alternately, why not do some minor changes to the pistol receiver to make it accept a pistol only magazine?

For example, a single extra protrusion and a matching path machined into the receiver. Pistol magazine would then not fit in rifles.
Or a change in the magazine catch?
Surely there's other ways as well.
 
Slartybartfast said:
As was noted earlier in the thread, anyone could apply to import the rifle variant and the 5rnd restriction would then be imposed on all the people using 10rnds.

Alternately, why not do some minor changes to the pistol receiver to make it accept a pistol only magazine?

For example, a single extra protrusion and a matching path machined into the receiver. Pistol magazine would then not fit in rifles.
Or a change in the magazine catch?
Surely there's other ways as well.
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Actually, as posted by Mr Wolverine this is a CV - converted variant of an SMG. It will always be limited to 5 rds. As well, the pistol and rifle variant both have FRT's. Whether anyone actually imports them or not is irrelevant, they exist and have been classified.The factory mags will be pinned to 5. Finally, as detailed elsewhere, CZ is having trouble producing enough Evo's to fill demand. I don't think we're going to see them do a bunch of prototyping etc for the few thousand that will be sold in Canada.

It's a competitively priced PCC and a cool product but it is what it is.
 
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