Problem resizing - help wanted from people who reload 300 wsm

[Ltbull01]

Make sure you don't see any light between the bottom of the die and the shell holder when you close the die on a case. If there is light, the shoulder is not being pushed back enough and the side wall maybe not back in enough. If so, dial the die down until you have contact with the shell holder, then lift the arm, dial the die down another 1/8 - 1/4 turn, at least until you can't see light between the die and shell holder when you close the die down on a case. You may close the die down on the shell holder without a case but insert a case, the press may have some flex when compressing on a case. I've seen that happen before.

If this doesn't fix the problem, go with an RCBS die. I've used one before in a Tikka 300WSM with no issues.

Are you sure it isn't a Lee collet sizing die? If you're using that, the case is sized to another chamber dimension and you could have problems trying to make it fit. I've experienced that too.

 

[c-fbmi]

You can confirm your suspicions by freezing your die overnight in a freezer, quickly remove die, handling with a towel to minimize heat transfer from your hands, and thread into press and size case with appropriate lube. The die should shrink between 2 and 3 thou and may be enough to confirm what you already know......your LEE die is junk and is over spec. No sizing die should ever size a case to SAAMI chamber max, this is pure BS. I would be complaining to LEE profusely. Sizing dies are supposed to max at 5 thou under chamber max dimensions, not at chamber max dimensions..........This is an industry standard and is supposed to be adhered to. When I get sizing die reamers made for my wildcats, they are .006 smaller in all cylindrical dimensions and .003 short to the datum of the shoulder, these are proper sizing dimensions, and allow for "spring back" of the brass.
LEE should replace that die free of charge, with one meeting the correct industry dimensions..........Their screw up should not cost you a nickel. This is why I always buy RCBS and have never had a problem with the more than 110 sets of dies I own.

 

[VinnyQC]

You can confirm your suspicions by freezing your die overnight in a freezer, quickly remove die, handling with a towel to minimize heat transfer from your hands, and thread into press and size case with appropriate lube. The die should shrink between 2 and 3 thou and may be enough to confirm what you already know......your LEE die is junk and is over spec. No sizing die should ever size a case to SAAMI chamber max, this is pure BS. I would be complaining to LEE profusely. Sizing dies are supposed to max at 5 thou under chamber max dimensions, not at chamber max dimensions..........This is an industry standard and is supposed to be adhered to. When I get sizing die reamers made for my wildcats, they are .006 smaller in all cylindrical dimensions and .003 short to the datum of the shoulder, these are proper sizing dimensions, and allow for "spring back" of the brass.
LEE should replace that die free of charge, with one meeting the correct industry dimensions..........Their screw up should not cost you a nickel. This is why I always buy RCBS and have never had a problem with the more than 110 sets of dies I own.

I bought the die set on amazon, so I can always send them back to them, they'll refund or exchange the whole set, and pay for shipping both ways. I was actually tempted to buy a set of RCBS from amazon, then return one or both, but that's not exactly fair imo.

I know Lee is the least expensive, but for pistol dies I've never had any problem, and their carbide (pistol) dies don't require lube, so that's very convenient.

I should get the RCBS small base die from x-reload before the Lee can't be returned. Then I'll decide where I wanna go from there.

 

[shotgun12G]

I had the same issue with my SAKO 85. The chamber was a hair tight and some factory Federal rounds were tight and made it hard to close the bolt. I milled a few thousands off the bottom of my RCBS die and re-sized them. They fit fine now. Easier than reaming the chamber.
I also drilled the neck size end so I could size the loaded round but you won't need to do that.

 

[skidderman]

I worked on a tikka once that had a similar problem. The front base screw was too long causing difficulty to close the bolt. I've loaded 100's of 300 wsm using rcbs dies. Trimming to length is key and oal is key as well. Sometimes you can push the shoulder so far back that it can cause a bulge just below the neck. Good luck

 

[medvedqc]

seems that Tikka Sako used CIP size than SAAMI didnt even it is not big difference we had an issue with a T3 that works perfectly with Norma brass and not at all with winchester ones.

that is maybe not only a die issue.

you will resolve it soon.

good luck.

Phil

 

[Potashminer]

Rifles and dies vary. If you stay with loading your own brass you stay out of trouble nearly all of the time. If
it came out of there, you can pretty much bet on it going back in.

Once you leave the nice safe world of "will work" you enter the uncharted water of "might work". The stars have aligned against you with a combination of his chamber being bigger than yours, and your die being on the big side. The downside to
Hanging around with "might work" is you expose yourself to his brother "might not". Might Not is a bit of prick.


If you want to stay in the land of "might work" you can buy or borrow a random die that might be a bit smaller and might work. Might cost you money and not work.

If you prefer the friendly land of "Will work " buy some new brass or the small base die.

By colouring the case and finding that the interference is at the base of the case (above the web) you've already proven that you are smarter than some of the people answering your thread. Don't blow it now.

This is an excellent post and sums up the situation OP is facing, very well.

I did a recent post on forming 7x61 from 7mm Rem Mag. Cases that had been FL sized in a Herter's FL die would not chamber. Top of shell holder tight to bottom odie body, press snapping over center. Those sized cases would drop right in up to the rim on my 338 Win Mag RCBS die, and would stop more than 1/2" from seating by finger into my 458 Win Mag RCBS die. All three - 7x61, 338, 458 are supposed to have exactly same size head, belt and case body above the belt. Running them all through my 458 die squeezed that part smaller. A .003 shim under the case head in the shell holder, with the top of the Lee shell holder tight to the die body raised those cases just enough in the Herter's die to get the case chambering slickly in the rifle. Once these are fired, in this rifle, I will set up my Herter's Super 3 press, use Super 3's shell holders with the Herters dies, and see what I get...

 

[laurencen]

myself I can not see how the thin shell plate will fix his issues if he already pressed a case into the die sitting on top of the shell plate, not sure how it did not stick in the die or why given it pushed the case in the die likely 1/8 inch further than needed.

something is not right with the die, wrong caliber possibly, from sizing lots of 300wsm I have never seen or heard of needing this much force the bench or press will deform, even 50cal take less force to size.

my guess the die is marked with the wrong caliber

 

[VinnyQC]

myself I can not see how the thin shell plate will fix his issues if he already pressed a case into the die sitting on top of the shell plate, not sure how it did not stick in the die or why given it pushed the case in the die likely 1/8 inch further than needed.

something is not right with the die, wrong caliber possibly, from sizing lots of 300wsm I have never seen or heard of needing this much force the bench or press will deform, even 50cal take less force to size.

my guess the die is marked with the wrong caliber

That would be surprising. Some of the cases can fit in the rifle if I force the bolt. I'm fairly certain the die is just garbage, 0.01'' too wide near the web.

I might try freezing the die to see how it goes. Worst case it shatters like the T-1000 in Terminator 2 and I send it back to amazon.

 

[laurencen]

That would be surprising. Some of the cases can fit in the rifle if I force the bolt. I'm fairly certain the die is just garbage, 0.01'' too wide near the web.

I might try freezing the die to see how it goes. Worst case it shatters like the T-1000 in Terminator 2 and I send it back to amazon.

freezing the die will not do much, yes it will shrink but not 0.01 maybe 0.0001, if you are able to press the brass into the die sitting on top of shell plate and the brass is still too big you have the wrong die for 300wsm

is there not a CGN member close with a 300wsm die set that reloads? you could compare the dies and maybe size a case with the die and see,

 

[medvedqc]

VinnyQC which factory are you using that fit in? Winchester, Federal or another brand?

 

[FLHTCUI]

I guess that explains why there's so much nickel plated available for next to nothing.

My press is the cheapo Lee C-press (which is like 1/10 the strength of a rock checker), and it doesn't have that much trouble resizing but then if my die is a bit loose, it would explain why.

Someone has mentioned it and hopefully there is someone close who can assist you in this while sitting at the reloading bench.
Yes, the C press is possible to use for a beginner .
But, it becomes readily apparent that it is not the best one on the market.
Not pointing out the obvious or at your choice of press.
My money is with the shiny covered brass shells and not with your press.

Have to tried to thread the sizing die just a little deeper into the press?
Thread it in till the die touches the shell holder when on the upstroke.
Then turn the die in just a little bit more. (LTbull01 tells it better than I explain my method)
Just enough to offer some resistance when giving a full press of the handle.
Of course there should not be a empty shell on the shell holder at this step.

I hope I am not confusing your troubles with something else and adding to your lack of success.
That is why I copied those links to see if something could be gleaned from the clips for your situation.

Failing any of my tips or opinions see if someone has some Federal/Winchester/Hornady Brass for you to try and experiment with to see if it is your press or other components causing you this grief.

If I had some brass in 300wsm I would send it your way , but alas I no longer have the Ti A-bolt.
Also the guy from Saskatchewan suggests not wasting your time freezing the dies in the freezer, I agree it aint gonna work no matter how many guys say it does.
Most will cheat and use a CO2 Fire Extinguisher to freeze the piece that is being a biotch and that my friend will get the job done.
We used it at work to shrink a shaft or install a bearing or chill some beer that need to be drunk like right now


Rob

 

[VinnyQC]

VinnyQC which factory are you using that fit in? Winchester, Federal or another brand?

Both Winchester and federal have cases that fit and cases that don't fit in. "Fitting in" is kind of a fuzzy concept though. On one hand, every cases would eventually fit in with enough force, given that the chamber and the bolt are made of steel while the cases are made of brass; on the other hand, none really do fit in as easily as factory ammo or a snap cap, there's always at least some unwarranted friction.

About 90% of the cases are Winchester, the rest are FC. All are nickel plated. I have about 175 cases. So less than 20 Federal, not enough to be statistically relevant.

 

[VinnyQC]

Someone has mentioned it and hopefully there is someone close who can assist you in this while sitting at the reloading bench.
Yes, the C press is possible to use for a beginner .
But, it becomes readily apparent that it is not the best one on the market.
Not pointing out the obvious or at your choice of press.
My money is with the shiny covered brass shells and not with your press.

Have to tried to thread the sizing die just a little deeper into the press?
Thread it in till the die touches the shell holder when on the upstroke.
Then turn the die in just a little bit more.
Just enough to offer some resistance when giving a full press of the handle.
Of course there should not be a empty shell on the shell holder at this step.

I hope I am not confusing your troubles with something else and adding to your lack of success.
That is why I copied those links to see if something could be gleaned from the clips for your situation.

Failing any of my tips or opinions see if someone has some Federal/Winchester/Hornady Brass for you to try and experiment with to see if it is your press or other components causing you this grief.

If I had some brass in 300wsm I would send it your way , but alas I no longer have the Ti A-bolt.
Also the guy from Saskatchewan suggests not wasting your time freezing the dies in the freezer, I agree it aint gonna work no matter how many guys say it does.
Most will cheat and use a CO2 Fire Extinguisher to freeze the piece that is being a biotch and that my friend will get the job done.
We used it at work to shrink a shaft or install a bearing or chill some beer that need to be drunk like right now


Rob

Calling that press "not the best on the market" is very PC. It's a cheap tool who's normal job is to deprime pistol brass before wet tumbling. And for that particular job, there's nothing better: a C-type press is faster than an O-type to swap cases, and depriming requires almost no leverage. Reloading large rifle cases with it is borderline crazy, and should I decide to keep shooting anything bigger than 223, I'll get an O-type. I wasn't sure if I wanted a turret or an O-type, but I've settled on O-type.

As for the dies, I've tried everything with this one, at this point I believe trying anything else is beating a dead horse. As I said, I even put a piece of brass on the shellholder instead of placing it in it, then pushed as hard as I could until I almost broke my hand on the ball handle. The only thing I could try would be to place it my vise and see what happens when a few thousand pounds of pressure is exerted on brass and steel.

I ordered the small base die from x-reload, and FedEx says it's gonna get here by tomorrow EOD (I doubt that, but we can hope). I'll keep everyone updated when I get the die.

I wasn't expecting much from the freezer other than a mildly satisfied curiosity, but you just gave me an idea with your CO2 extinguisher: I have access to liquid nitrogen. Might be overkill. Let's hope so

 

[wce323078]

Liquid nitrogen sounds like way over kill. plus how are you going to use it? take some home or take die to it. sounds kind of iffy. I have seen bearing's shatter while tapping them in to a bore after freezing.

 

[VinnyQC]

Liquid nitrogen sounds like way over kill. plus how are you going to use it? take some home or take die to it. sounds kind of iffy. I have seen bearing's shatter while tapping them in to a bore after freezing.

Take LN to home in a thermal container made specifically to carry LN. Dip die slowly into container until all LN is evaporated. I can't/won't bring enough to take the die all the way to -196C, so I don't expect anything to shatter.

Anyway, that's a plan for another day, now I wait for the die from xreload.

 

[FLHTCUI]

Leave the liquid nitrogen alone and use a CO2 extinguisher.
But, your kit and your resources, just make sure you take pics and share the results.
Being PC isnt my forte' and didnt want to insult someone looking for a solution to solutions that show they have been trying.
If that makes any sense at all.
Look forward to your continued trials and experiments with proof positive results.
Tight Groups... eventually ,
Rob

 

[laurencen]

a shell holder will not do anything if you tried sizing with the brass sitting on top of the current shell holder, you physically can not get the die any further than on top of a shell holder, best method now is find someone close who loads 300wsm, take a trip and compare dies maybe size one in the die that works, I load 300wsm, send me a brass you sized and I will see how it chambers in my rifle

there is no way its this hard, my bet is the die is marked incorrectly from the maker, no freezing or slim shell holder is going to fix this and no way is that much force required, once the die touches the shell holder more pressure will achieve nothing

 

[VinnyQC]

a shell holder will not do anything if you tried sizing with the brass sitting on top of the current shell holder, you physically can not get the die any further than on top of a shell holder, best method now is find someone close who loads 300wsm, take a trip and compare dies maybe size one in the die that works, I load 300wsm, send me a brass you sized and I will see how it chambers in my rifle

there is no way its this hard, my bet is the die is marked incorrectly from the maker, no freezing or slim shell holder is going to fix this and no way is that much force required, once the die touches the shell holder more pressure will achieve nothing

I don't think it's marked incorrectly. Unless there's some other cartridge that's exactly like 300wsm but 0.01'' wider near the web. I think it's just a piece of garbage. The whole set, including a shell holder, 3 dies (resized/seater/factory crimp) and a plastic box cost me 44$. At that price point, bad QC has to be expected once in a while. I've given up on these dies and will send them back for refund or replacement.

I might take you up on that offer and send you a couple of case, so at least I'll know if the chamber of my rifle is also too tight, but first I wanna test the SBD I ordered yesterday. With some luck it might be here for easter.

 

[luckey]

Hi OP, this problem isbnot unique to your caliber, but many once-fired brass in different calibres if fired from big chamber guns.
As some mentioned already, RCBS small based die is your solution. It fixed mine on my 308 and to be on the safe side, I bought the same rcbs dies for my 223 semis even though I already have lee fl dies. Never have the problem again like with Lee FL die. You only need to use small base to fix the problem brass. Once it's fire formed in your rifle, you can go back to regular neck sizing and fl sizing

So here's the deal: I bought a lot of once-fired brass (actually Nickel, some FC but most are Winchester) for my rifle on the EE (Tikka T3 - 300WSM). I resized 50 of them using my Lee FL sizing die, but now they don't fit in the chamber. On some of them, I can't close the bolt at all, on some others I can close the bolt, but it's very difficult. Factory ammos and snap caps are totally fine.

First culprit was the OAL, so I pushed the bullet further, until it made no sense. Then I just pushed the bullet all the way in the case(bullet was seated in a case without powder or primer so wasn't a problem), so I was actually trying to load a casing at that point. Still impossible to close the bolt.

Then I thought I had not trimmed them short enough, so I re-trimmed a few of them to 2.090 (trim-to-length is 2.090, and max trim length is 2.100). Still wouldn't fit. So I trimmed one of them to a complete nonsense of 1.97, and it still wouldn't fit. But at least at this point it's 100% clear that nether the OAL or the trim length are the problem.

At this point I was almost completely out of ideas, so I just used a blue marker and I completely painted one of the casing that would let the bolt close if I forced it, and see where the paint would chip. Turns out there seems to be some kind of bulge on the casings. About 0.337 inches from the bottom of the casing, I measure a diameter of 0.555'' with a caliper, while the factory ammos are 0.545'' at the same place.

Turns out that 0.555'' is SAAMI's base diameter for a 300WSM, so in theory the re-sized brass should fit in a rifle. In practice though I suppose my chamber is tight as a virgin, and the dies are not re-sizing sufficiently, while factory ammos are sized to fit into everything.

So can anyone who reloads 300wsm measure the diameter of the brass after resizing just 0.337 inches above the bottom and tell me what they get, and which type of dies you use? If anyone measures something in the 0.545'' area I'll be totally happy to buy the same brand of dies, at least on FL die.

Or if anyone has a more clever idea than buying new dies, I'm all ears.