My IPSC Experience

Hard to believe that this young fellow, was paying closer attention to your trigger finger during the drills that he would have likely been performing at the same time as you, vs the the instructor who's sole purpose is to teach you and assess your competence and safety during said drills.

As was stated by Mrclean earlier in this thread, if the instructor treated you so unfairly and his final assessment of your ability to safely run around a range with a loaded firearm was wrong, you should have brought it up with the IPSC section of your home province at that time.

Waiting several years, harbouring resentment and hurt feelings, and recalling stories of dropping your gun along with being warned multiple times to keep your finger out of the trigger guard makes everyone here question your motives as well as your actual perception of what really transpired.

When I shoot, I feel as though I'm running as fast as Usain Bolt on his way to another gold medal.
But when I see the video.....

Perception and reality can be two different things.

If you feel you can be safe, and want to try IPSC one more time, challenge the black badge course again.
Prove to yourself that the other guy was wrong.

Coming on a public forum to air grievances that may or may not exist, does nothing to benefit you.
Regardless of how you may have interpreted the responses so far (positive or negative) truthfully no one cares and no one will sympathize with you because safety is paramount.
The instructor did not pass you for a reason.

I'd much rather have people have hurt feelings and feel embarrassed if their competence with a loaded firearm is in any way suspect vs having them do something dumb while in close proximity to me at a match.
I'm being selfish, but I don't want any new holes in my body at the moment.
 
Sqr said:
I feel for ya. The arrogant IPSC crowd, not all, but enough discourage new shooters and some of these people forget they where new to it. I feel bad when I am in the midst of these distractions.
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The "arrogant IPSC crowd" doesn't want to get shot by people who shouldn't be on the range with them.

The arrogance you perceive, many people take competing seriously.
This sport may be their only avenue to still try and enjoy the thrill of competing and the adrenaline rush of an extreme sport.

I have yet to see a new shooter be cast away because they are new. I've been to more matches than I care to think about, both in Canada and internationally, and the first thing experienced shooters do is try and get someone new up to speed so they are safer and enjoy the sport more.
New shooters need to let people know they are new though, otherwise how are we to know?

If someone feels they are being outcast because other competitors didn't want to chat like schoolgirls at recess when they are trying to focus on performing at their maximum potential, then so be it.

But I'll state again, perception and reality are two different things.
Misinterpretation what is actually happening results in the majority of the butthurt we read about.

Its entertaining though.
 
Gets tough to believe you, especially when an assistant from the course has commented on the behavior during the course.

MartyK2500 said:
If you we're using a glock in a ghost holster I was there as an assistant to black badge instructor.
There was some scary #### coming from that glock guy from out of town on that day.
I remember it hitting concrete and going into a spin, kinda funny but not really.

I didn't want to bring that useless story up again, but the occasion seemed fitting.

Edit : And the part so I forgot to mention, I am 100% willing to bet, that had you taken recommendations and trained with your gun back home, and would of came back a year later and proved to be comfortable, you would of been takn back in with open arms. As long as you can prove to be comfortable and safe, and this is even if you are glock guy whoever may he be.
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kidcom said:
You say that my finger was on the trigger...it WASN"T. Again the point has been missed. My finger was NEVER inside the trigger guard PERIOD. That's why the young fellow came to me at the end to express his disbelief as to what happened.
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I'll take a qualified shooter, helping instruct a class over someone who drops their gun and fingers their gun unsafely when attempting to get qualified. Leads me to believe that the OP was not ready, and cannot handle that fact. Hence why he is here, YEARS later, still stewing about it rather than just doing the course again with more practice.

I've failed a course, DQ'd for safety. I made my adjustments, returned, passed. I did not sit on it for years, then whine on it on a public forum as if I was singled out. Man up. Either sell your gear, or re run the course... sympathy for unsafe shooters isn't happening.
 
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As a final thought (hopefully), I'm no longer interested in anyway with competitive shooting (IPSC, 3 Gun etc.). I'm a collector of old pistols as well as doing a small amount of bullseye target shooting and trap & skeet. I simply wanted to share with everyone my experience with attempting to get my BB. Believe me this is the last time that I will share any of my firearms related experiences.
 
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Sorry to hear, dynamic shooting sports are a hoot, but come with stringent safety guidelines.

Your holster (the ghost glock one) ought to be a quick/easy sell. Might want to post it on the equipment exchange to recover a few dollars.
 
When I took my BB course, our instructor made it clear to get into the habit of exaggerating our trigger finger outside the trigger guard by getting it high up on the slide. The reason for this is exactly for the reason the OP was called out for ie having his finger in the trigger guard even though he didn't. When on the line, things move quickly and if an RO thinks he saw your finger in the trigger guard when not engaging a target eg mag change, transitioning etc, he/she WILL call a DQ on you for safety violations even if you were just hovering over the trigger. It's their word over yours and unless you can prove it, you'll have to eat that DQ.

If you look at the IPSC videos, when the shooter is changing mags, moving etc their trigger finger is riding up on the slide.

It's sometimes hard to erase and reprogram oneself after decades of keeping your trigger finger off the trigger by resting it on the front part of the trigger guard or hovering it over the trigger to now riding it high up on the slide but it needs to be done. Not only to indicate to the RO that your finger is definitely off the trigger but also for safety reasons eg. you need to transition from one side of a barrier to another or you happen to shoot through an opening with your muzzle ahead of the opening and you rest your trigger finger on the guard but when you begin to move around the barrier or away from the window and happen to bump the front end of your pistol on the barrier, the rotation of the pistol could be enough to get your finger to slip into the trigger guard and onto the trigger. And if you have a light trigger, that could end badly for someone.

Another scenerio, you are running across the stage to engage other targets with your hot, sweaty hands on your pistol, if you accidentally trip, it's a lot easier for your trigger finger to get into that trigger guard and on the trigger OR if you have short fingers and just barely reaching the trigger guard, for your trigger finger to slip off the guard and onto the trigger. God forbid you have a 2.5lb or less trigger if this happens or someone might not be going home.

Again, it's hard to undo years of doing things one way to change to another but it certainly is doable by practicing proper technique regularly at home until it starts to become second nature. Using good techniques, practice the full scenerio as if you were called to the line... load and make ready, draw from the holster, engage a target(s), do a couple mag changes, unload and show clear, holster and get into the habit of engaging the holster lock on your Ghost. During the mag change, spot check yourself mid change and see where your trigger finger is. If it's on the guard. Stop. Slow it down and repeat the drill. After a few days to a week of this, you wouldn't have to conciously tell yourself to keep your trigger finger high up off the trigger. When holstering esp with speed holsters, it's okay to look down at your holster when you do so and always, always, always verify that the pistol is secured and locked in before letting go of your grip on it.

Another huge benefit you will get from practicing at home before and during the course is gaining familarity with your gear. While I'm no BB instructor or pretend to be a seasoned IPSC shooter, I have been an assistant instructor in other fields for several years, one of them being scuba. I could tell who's been practicing and becoming familiar with their gear and safety checks etc just by looking at the way they conduct themselves. I've gone through enough courses to gauge who are most likely to pass and who I'll have to keep an eye on for their safety. The ones that I have to pull aside and speak to one-on-one are the ones who are being overwhelmed by unfamiliar gear and trying to absorb/process lots of new information while spashing around in a chilly pool for a few hours. The ones that I don't have to worry about are ahead of the game because they're so familiar with their gear, they only need to pay attention to what the instructor is saying.

Like an old highschool saying during exam time, "If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail" (adapted from Benjamin Franklin's "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail")

Sorry it didn't work out for the OP but just because these courses are for fun, there's no guaranteed passing when safety is concerned... yours and your fellow shooters. You need to understand that the instructor was lenient to give you several safety warnings before telling you to pack up. It was his call based on his belief that you were not ready or he considered you unsafe. You can't fault him for his decision 'cause he does not know you outside the few hours spent during the course to know that you are a safe shooter. One guy in my class was told to pack up and retry the course at a later date after he became familiar with his new pistol and holster. He was just very awkward (in an unsafe kind of way) with handling the firearm (looked like he never held a gun before in his life) and just could not get it into his head to keep his finger out of the trigger guard.

One of the cardinal rules of handling guns, treat all guns as if they are loaded. Dropping an unloaded gun is as good as dropping a loaded one, kind of like idiots who accidentally flag someone with an unloaded gun then laugh it off "it's okay, it's unloaded" NO!

Anyhow, enough of my rambling.... Sorry it did not work out for you.
 
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The notion to exaggerating the trigger finger higher on the slide can contribute to a poor grip on a pistole eventually leading to a dropped gun. Everybody has a different hand size so why would an instructor teach a more dangerous habit....sheesh. If the finger is out then the finger is out...period! Yes I understand that many IPSC people are nice and the some take it vet serious like some golfers I know, but damn chill out and make new shooters welcome.
 
Sqr said:
The notion to exaggerating the trigger finger higher on the slide can contribute to a poor grip on a pistole eventually leading to a dropped gun. Everybody has a different hand size so why would an instructor teach a more dangerous habit....sheesh. If the finger is out then the finger is out...period! Yes I understand that many IPSC people are nice and the some take it vet serious like some golfers I know, but damn chill out and make new shooters welcome.
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I took the BB course back in the early 90's and they were teaching the "finger on the frame" back then for the same reason as now, when the RO is on the left side of a right handed shooter or the right side of a left handed shooter its hard to tell if the finger is in or out of the trigger guard when things are moving quickly, if the RO sees a finger there, err on the side of caution, chances are that shooter is done for the day, if the finger is up on the frame the RO sees nothing but daylight thru the trigger guard. Also im sorry but I will have to argue that moving the finger up onto the frame does not cause a poor grip on the firearm, if anything its more stable than just having your finger stuck out off to the side.
 
Holy crap mods..these posts r essays and short stories now
I will now start my own......
How much wood can a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?j
(500 WORDS MIN PLEASE)
 
For a north american woodchuck, its scientifically proven that the avg amount is 3lb 2 oz.

European chucks, 3lb 8oz.
 
Overall taking the BB course is a wealth of information and refreshing. IPSC is one of the sports that is competitive, fun, enjoying, and full of good people! One thing that has to be mentioned is that it can be very physical as you will be expected to shoot from a multitude of different positions. Having a physical limitation is not the end all, but it can put restrictions on your sport where time is a factor. The key thing however is SAFETY! This is paramount and above all the number one area of focus within our sport. Aside from the tragic accident in BC, accidents and injuries are rare and almost unheard of in our sport. Key practice and training should be using dry fire. This will have you focused on your drawing, mag changes, movement, and transition, while focusing on safety.
 
kidcom said:
I should mention that if everyone had read my OP carefully, you would have realize that I wasn't DQ'd for dropping my pistol. The reason for that, which I forgot to mention, was the pistol was safe, no magazine, no round in the chamber. It was my second percieved drop of my finger towards the trigger guard that resulted in the DQ. That was obviously questioned by the young fellow who spoke with me after I was asked to leave the course.
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dropping a gun, unloaded or loaded is a DQ in our area...... there are only 3 instances where a gun can be handled in ipsc, besides when shooting.
1) load and make ready
2) unload and show clear
3) in the safe area with muzzle pointed into "safe area"

you drop your gun, break 180* or have an nd you are responsible...... 4 rules of gun safety
- All guns are always loaded.
- Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
- Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

and frankly IMHO not one event got you kicked out but the sum of the whole...... another thing, you admit to not being a sport shooter and yet you buy a ghost holster (which in my opinion is not for average or below average shooters), a standard bladetech DOH or OWB would have been sufficient to complete the course, get a couple dbl mag pouches and a couple singles and your good to go in a safe time proven holster design....
 
Challenge failed Pauls
I'm not use to reading 3 lines anymore

Btw I think u look more like taran butler than bolt
(not that I'm considering color cause I'm not racist)
 
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck
if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
He would chuck, he would, as much as he could,
and chuck as much wood as a woodchuck would
if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
pauls said:
For a north american woodchuck, its scientifically proven that the avg amount is 3lb 2 oz.

European chucks, 3lb 8oz.
Click to expand...
 
Sqr said:
The notion to exaggerating the trigger finger higher on the slide can contribute to a poor grip on a pistole eventually leading to a dropped gun. Everybody has a different hand size so why would an instructor teach a more dangerous habit....sheesh. If the finger is out then the finger is out...period! Yes I understand that many IPSC people are nice and the some take it vet serious like some golfers I know, but damn chill out and make new shooters welcome.
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How do you figure that?

Finger tip on frame/slide is same spot as trigger just angled up instead of straight to trigger guard.
 
OP, sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience during the BB course.

Safety is foremost and the recent tragic accident of a very experienced IPSC instructor during a competition was terrible news. What did he do wrong that contributed to this accident? And what can be learned from this tragedy that should be ingrained to new and experienced shooters? Surely, there is something.

IPSC should ensure that BB course attendees are made abundantly aware that they must be very familial with their equipment and be sufficiently capable with the firearm intended for the course. I would even go as far as signing a form in this regard as part of the course requirement beforehand and that the instructor may dismiss anyone he feels is not up to par. There is a lot that can be learned with an unloaded firearm that would be very useful but you do not know much until the "course".

Also, the BB course I took some 25 years ago as I recall there were no DQs for any reason and the course itself felt more like an exam than a course with attention being given to accuracy as well back then.
 
bsand said:
How do you figure that?

Finger tip on frame/slide is same spot as trigger just angled up instead of straight to trigger guard.
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Not if you have small hands the higher you go the more your going to rotate your hand on the grip. I think the super exaggerate finger on the slide stupid and I don't do it,if your finger is up the frame it's not near the trigger
If you don't have the strength in your hands to squeeze the grip and keep your finger there and the slightest bump with cause you to put your finger months trigger when you don't mean too then action sports are not your game. I can't swim worth #### so I'm not going to enter a swimming competition,people need to be honest with themselves and know their limitations.
 
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