So i handled a vintage auto five recently, and decided i liked it better than the new stuff on the shelf. Do those old guns hold up to the new stuff? i'm looking at tracking down an interchangeable choke model that can handle steel shot. Am i being unwise looking at an auto five over the new stuff?
Classic Auto Five
- Thread starter m1978
- Start date
Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Comparatively, the old Auto 5 is way better made than any of the lower cost new stuff. Send the barrel to someone like Briley and have them install choke tubes in the barrel.
I'm not an Auto 5 fan. Like most Browning designs the Auto 5 it is overly complex, difficult to disassemble, doesn't switch easily between light and heavy loads and IMO handles like a stump.
The Belgian-made guns are fixed choke and Browning advises not to use steel in them. Therefore you are limited to a Japanese-made model if you want choke tubes and plan to use steel. Having Briley install choke tubes doesn't make much sense because the cost of installation, the chokes and shipping will come close to what the gun is worth and you will not get that money back should you decide to sell the gun at some point.
Here's a thread that you might find of interest:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1584639-A5-bolt-stuck-to-the-rear
The Auto 5 was ground breaking in its day. That day was in 1902. There's nothing wrong with using an older design provided you go into the gun fully aware of its quirks and challenges.
The Belgian-made guns are fixed choke and Browning advises not to use steel in them. Therefore you are limited to a Japanese-made model if you want choke tubes and plan to use steel. Having Briley install choke tubes doesn't make much sense because the cost of installation, the chokes and shipping will come close to what the gun is worth and you will not get that money back should you decide to sell the gun at some point.
Here's a thread that you might find of interest:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1584639-A5-bolt-stuck-to-the-rear
The Auto 5 was ground breaking in its day. That day was in 1902. There's nothing wrong with using an older design provided you go into the gun fully aware of its quirks and challenges.
Last edited:
I have a different opinion. The Auto 5 is easy to disassemble, relatively easy to change between light and heavy loads, and very well made.
It is also severely homely. Kind of like the "Moose" of shotguns.
It is one of those guns that I hate to love. I can shoot them well, though I dislike the "kachung" of the mechanism. I have to respect the design, but don't need another.
My Father-in-Law owned one for waterfowl, so I inherited it when he passed away. I found it was a natural pointer for me at informal clays, when he and I shot. It has long since gone down the road.
It is also severely homely. Kind of like the "Moose" of shotguns.
It is one of those guns that I hate to love. I can shoot them well, though I dislike the "kachung" of the mechanism. I have to respect the design, but don't need another.
My Father-in-Law owned one for waterfowl, so I inherited it when he passed away. I found it was a natural pointer for me at informal clays, when he and I shot. It has long since gone down the road.
In two posts, you've got both sides of the coin.
The auto 5 is better made than several modern shotguns, because it had to be.
It is a fairly complex design, needing a skilled hand to both build and to assemble. It has been written several places that saw no need to use one simple part, when five small ones would do just as well.
It's hard to say the auto 5 was ahead of the game, only because it was the only game in town for over half of the 20th century.
There are better shotguns today that offer far more versatility. But that doesn't mean that an old humpback won't work exactly as it did 100 years ago, which is something worth acknowledging and celebrating.
The auto 5 is better made than several modern shotguns, because it had to be.
It is a fairly complex design, needing a skilled hand to both build and to assemble. It has been written several places that saw no need to use one simple part, when five small ones would do just as well.
It's hard to say the auto 5 was ahead of the game, only because it was the only game in town for over half of the 20th century.
There are better shotguns today that offer far more versatility. But that doesn't mean that an old humpback won't work exactly as it did 100 years ago, which is something worth acknowledging and celebrating.
The auto 5's were made for almost 100 years continuously . They weren't that popular because they handle like a stump??? Everyone is entitled to their opinion , opinions vary , and everybody has one. The only way to tell if a gun is for you is handle / shoot one.
For some people a gun may fit them perfectly, and when brought to the shoulder , it's right where it's supposed to be, on target.
If a gun doesn't fit you , keep looking.
I still have an auto 5 that makes regular trips to the duck blind ,and with a Hastings Paradox rifled barrel, it doubles as a fine deer slayer.
Mine happens to be a Japanese made gun with the interchangeable chokes . I have never had a problem with it in over 25 years.
There has never been a need to completely disassemble it. Just clean it. They were made to last.
For some people a gun may fit them perfectly, and when brought to the shoulder , it's right where it's supposed to be, on target.
If a gun doesn't fit you , keep looking.
I still have an auto 5 that makes regular trips to the duck blind ,and with a Hastings Paradox rifled barrel, it doubles as a fine deer slayer.
Mine happens to be a Japanese made gun with the interchangeable chokes . I have never had a problem with it in over 25 years.
There has never been a need to completely disassemble it. Just clean it. They were made to last.
Last edited:
The Auto 5 was popular primarily due to lack of competition for almost 50 years. The only comparable guns on the market were variations on the A5 design made by Remington and Savage. It was only after WWII that other semi-automatic guns came on to the market. It took until the late 60's and early 70's for the A5 to be surpassed by other designs and Browning ceased production of the A5 in 1998.
It had a very good run but buying one today is IMO motivated less by performance and more by nostalgia. Just don't forget to get the special screwdriver bits the A5 requires and that the friction ring is in the right direction.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...rowning-auto-5-screwdriver-set-prod25476.aspx
It had a very good run but buying one today is IMO motivated less by performance and more by nostalgia. Just don't forget to get the special screwdriver bits the A5 requires and that the friction ring is in the right direction.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...rowning-auto-5-screwdriver-set-prod25476.aspx
I have two A-5s a light 20 inherited from my dad and a Mag 12 I bought years back. Is the design complicated? Yes but it is also quite reliable. Okay, so it takes 5 to 15 minutes to switch between light and heavy loads, so what? You know what load you're using before you ever go into the field. That humpback receiver just draws my eye to the rib and beads or in the case of the slug barrel to the sights.
Cleaning and disassembly are easy, the A-5 was designed in an era when black powder was still commonly used, which is why J.M. Browning developed the long recoil system to keep all the fouling out of the action. Just be aware of the spring under the barrel. when you remove the cap. Worst thing about the gun is that the forearms tend to crack.
Cleaning and disassembly are easy, the A-5 was designed in an era when black powder was still commonly used, which is why J.M. Browning developed the long recoil system to keep all the fouling out of the action. Just be aware of the spring under the barrel. when you remove the cap. Worst thing about the gun is that the forearms tend to crack.
Funny how one's posting a respect for an obsolete design can be misinterpreted.
The Auto 5 succeeded because it just plain worked. When FN's long recoil patent expired in 1947 a number of derivatives immediately came to the marketplace, copying and building upon a successful design.
The Remington 1100 was the first truly successful gas operated semi-auto shotgun, fondly known as Jam-o-matic in the duck blind (among my friends, anyway). Their success was partly due to reparability and a reliable supply of parts. Self compensating gas operated designs are now available, which should prove to be more reliable and versatile. Gas operated guns inevitably need more attention to cleaning, but offer some reduction of perceived recoil.
Short recoil designs are very, very reliable in the best made guns.
A lot of progress has been made in the design of semi-auto shotguns since the Auto 5, but it is always good to remember where you have "come from".
The Auto 5 succeeded because it just plain worked. When FN's long recoil patent expired in 1947 a number of derivatives immediately came to the marketplace, copying and building upon a successful design.
The Remington 1100 was the first truly successful gas operated semi-auto shotgun, fondly known as Jam-o-matic in the duck blind (among my friends, anyway). Their success was partly due to reparability and a reliable supply of parts. Self compensating gas operated designs are now available, which should prove to be more reliable and versatile. Gas operated guns inevitably need more attention to cleaning, but offer some reduction of perceived recoil.
Short recoil designs are very, very reliable in the best made guns.
A lot of progress has been made in the design of semi-auto shotguns since the Auto 5, but it is always good to remember where you have "come from".
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
I have owned a plethora of autoloaders since my first one, an A-5. They all have their ups and downs but imo after 37 years of waterfowling having a gun that can digest multiple loads from 2 3/4" to 3 1/2" is not needed and in that respect a steel choke compatible barrel on an A-5 would serve that gun well. I'd much sooner shoot the venerable old A-5 than any of the alloy receiver & tupperware stocked shotguns of today which is why I no longer own any of the them. The A-5 is as tough as it is reliable and though the design is over 100 years old the fact it's still out there pounding waterfowl into the roast pan speaks volumes. May she see another 100 years!!
fishslinger
CGN Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
I love the classic A-5, currently own a mag 20 and 12. I use them every season, they are very easy to maintain. No need to take the trigger action assembly apart, simply spray the action with a good spray cleaner and lightly lube the guide rods. Then wipe down the cylinder tube and spring and rings, clean barrel as usual done. I read a book on the market hunting days and it said the A-5 was popular because is was one of the only auto's that could cycle swollen from moisture paper hull shotgun shells reliably. I think they point and swing great, line up perfect with my eye. I will always have a classic A-5 in my gun safe.
I wuzz sayfinn up furr a rebuttawl, butt Spankie did moi the favour.
Tennewberrymudd.
Last edited:
I purchased one from a very generous member here and it has served me well.
It is a 1964 in 2 3/4 inch with the barrel opened up to modified. It fits me and points as if it was custom fitted and is perfect for duck hunting either over decoys or jump shooting.
I got my first and only triple with it in a farmer's field with a deep ditch. I slowly approached the ditch that i knew had ducks in it and they bust out of there in a covey and the gun came up and fired three shots almost by itself and three ducks went down.
It is a 1964 in 2 3/4 inch with the barrel opened up to modified. It fits me and points as if it was custom fitted and is perfect for duck hunting either over decoys or jump shooting.
I got my first and only triple with it in a farmer's field with a deep ditch. I slowly approached the ditch that i knew had ducks in it and they bust out of there in a covey and the gun came up and fired three shots almost by itself and three ducks went down.
That sounds like a thing of beauty !!!
Not only the sight of ducks being flushed , but the whole deal of gun coming up and sighting down the barrel and then.
Three shots being fired, three ducks going down and not to mention the shells being ejected out to the right...just being able to watch it all from straight ahead and out the side of your peripheral vision .
And as that Looky guy asks '' Duzz ya remember the noizse they make...Mewzikk ''
I regret selling that gun sometimes, but the shooter is a great guy as well, a real Gentleman.
Rob
Ilove12gshotguns
CGN Regular
- Location
- New Brunswick
Is the Auto-5 still relevant today? yes and no,
The problem with most Auto-5's is that you cannot shoot steel threw them, and most have fixed chokes that severely limit there practical use in the field. Belgian made Auto-5's tend to hang on walls or get used strictly for "clays" purposes on account that they were not designed to shoot steel and have fixed ckokes, resulting with little use with todays modern high speed steel hunting loads.
Japanese made Auto-5's are made a little tougher and have longer forcing cones making them capable of shooting steel, but sadly again most are fixed chokes, again limiting their use. Since the Late 1980's to Early 1990's Japan started producing steel capable barrels with removable chokes, and when paired with a 12g 3" mag chamber, it makes the Auto-5 a real work horse in the field.
If you can find a one of those in good condition. Keep it....
Unfortunately parts are getting harder and harder to find. Plus certain parts are ungodly expensive, just take the wood forend for example. They can easily go for $200-$400 depending on condition, and if you CAN EVEN find a Jap barrel with a removable choke its worth $450++. Which gets me is most older Auto-5's are being sold for much less then the sum of their parts, with many examples being around the 350-450 mark on EE. At the same time look at Auto-5 barrels in the Parts section and you will se what I am talking about.
In my mind Browning Auto-5's are king, and as with any design that 100+ years old it has it quirks. That being sad if you give me a BNIB 12g 3" Auto-5 Japanese with removable chokes or a BNIB Super Black Eagle, I will take the Auto 5 any day.
Just my $.02
The problem with most Auto-5's is that you cannot shoot steel threw them, and most have fixed chokes that severely limit there practical use in the field. Belgian made Auto-5's tend to hang on walls or get used strictly for "clays" purposes on account that they were not designed to shoot steel and have fixed ckokes, resulting with little use with todays modern high speed steel hunting loads.
Japanese made Auto-5's are made a little tougher and have longer forcing cones making them capable of shooting steel, but sadly again most are fixed chokes, again limiting their use. Since the Late 1980's to Early 1990's Japan started producing steel capable barrels with removable chokes, and when paired with a 12g 3" mag chamber, it makes the Auto-5 a real work horse in the field.
If you can find a one of those in good condition. Keep it....
Unfortunately parts are getting harder and harder to find. Plus certain parts are ungodly expensive, just take the wood forend for example. They can easily go for $200-$400 depending on condition, and if you CAN EVEN find a Jap barrel with a removable choke its worth $450++. Which gets me is most older Auto-5's are being sold for much less then the sum of their parts, with many examples being around the 350-450 mark on EE. At the same time look at Auto-5 barrels in the Parts section and you will se what I am talking about.
In my mind Browning Auto-5's are king, and as with any design that 100+ years old it has it quirks. That being sad if you give me a BNIB 12g 3" Auto-5 Japanese with removable chokes or a BNIB Super Black Eagle, I will take the Auto 5 any day.
Just my $.02
