It's Not Just Eotechs.

Stoner99 said:
Don’t argue 416 with me,you are way out of your field. The M27 416 adoption by USMC being an augment(not too replace M249 my view) to a platoon or section was my idea back in 2004 if not earlier. I knew about the 416 project early 2000’s. The Hk416 is an awesome weapon system, I doubt a civilian shooter like yourself would understand why at all without actual military/combative arms training shooting real 556 ammo through guns and seeing weapons at real failure points.

The proof and data that is public back up my claim in regards to its performance, and reasons of why it is a great weapon system. The benefits that came from the HK416 project and variants dramatically impacted the small arms world with immense positives.

Example the rail locking system recently copied by Gieselle being one small example.

As for Eotechs. They are still being bought by the best units out there. Yet you continue to ignore this fact. I own Aimpoint T1’s and have no problem using the Eotech line as well.

Yes Eotech has problems with some of there products, but does that mean things never change ?
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The Hk416 is an epic piece of kit. But few can take advantage of its extra performance and its weight is a drawback for it.

And no I'm not a hater. I'm slowly putting money aside for a 416 myself.
 
r34skyline said:
What separates the xps from the exps series?
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Ive had both. The 2 biggest things are 1) EXPS has side buttons for better button access if you have a magnifier. 2) EXPS has Quick release mounting system and also the extra height gives you lower 1/3 co-witness over the XPS which is absolute co-witness.

In terms of the reticle they are pretty much the same 65moa ring with the 1moa dot.
 
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bennypoo said:
Ive had both. The 2 biggest things are 1) EXPS has side buttons for better button access if you have a magnifier. 2) EXPS has Quick release mounting system and also the extra height gives you lower 1/3 co-witness over the XPS which is absolute co-witness.

In terms of the reticle they are pretty much the same 65moa ring with the 1moa dot.
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Is one built tougher than the other?
 
Eotechs are fine. Did they have issues. Yes. All optics can have issues.
These are the units that still use eotechs.

CSOR
JTF2
Canadian CP teams
RCMP
RCN

USMC/ MARSOC
75th Ranger BTN
SEAL teams
DEVGRU
Delta
LAPD SWAT
FBI

SAS
Royal Navy Marines

SASR

Now are they all f*cking stupid? NO>
So kick back, have a beer and enjoy shooting with whatever flavour optic you like.
 
Hilo71 said:
Eotechs are fine. Did they have issues. Yes. All optics can have issues.
These are the units that still use eotechs.

CSOR
JTF2
Canadian CP teams
RCMP
RCN

USMC/ MARSOC
75th Ranger BTN
SEAL teams
DEVGRU
Delta
LAPD SWAT
FBI

SAS
Royal Navy Marines

SASR

Now are they all f*cking stupid? NO>
So kick back, have a beer and enjoy shooting with whatever flavour optic you like.
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Actually jtf2 just point their finger at you and you disintegrate.
 
r34skyline said:
Actually jtf2 just point their finger at you and you disintegrate.
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LOL, yeah :cool:
To be clear though, most top tier units allow a lot of individual choice for kit. So when you see a SAS or DEVGRU dude kicking down a door wearing an eotech, I think his trust in that optic should just make haters shut up.
 
Hilo71 said:
LOL, yeah :cool:
To be clear though, most top tier units allow a lot of individual choice for kit. So when you see a SAS or DEVGRU dude kicking down a door wearing an eotech, I think his trust in that optic should just make haters shut up.
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You would think ��

But as we have seen people like to argue everything.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
Kidd X.

You openly state that you don't care about who has the clearest glass, or the best reticle.
Nor do you care about which system works best when paired with a magnifier.

And since you don't care about such things; Eotech is definitely not for you.

But I still don't understand why you would throw away money on an Aimpoint.

For the average shooter; They don't do anything that a $125 Bushnell TRS-25 won't do.
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You need to check your comprehension. The tint in a reddot has ZERO effect on performance, it's a gripe parroted by misinformed bench shooters. IF you can't get past a little blue tint you're in for a rough ride in life..

What's "best" with a magnifier is awash as no reddot with a magnifier is a steller setup, it's a stop gap that was created before rugged LPV's came to be.

The average shooter is free to buy what they please. Others like myself prefer products that won't fail and actually work as advertised.

Stoner99 said:
Don’t argue 416 with me,you are way out of your field. The M27 416 adoption by USMC being an augment(not too replace M249 my view) to a platoon or section was my idea back in 2004 if not earlier. I knew about the 416 project early 2000’s. The Hk416 is an awesome weapon system, I doubt a civilian shooter like yourself would understand why at all without actual military/combative arms training shooting real 556 ammo through guns and seeing weapons at real failure points.

The proof and data that is public back up my claim in regards to its performance, and reasons of why it is a great weapon system. The benefits that came from the HK416 project and variants dramatically impacted the small arms world with immense positives.

Example the rail locking system recently copied by Gieselle being one small example.

As for Eotechs. They are still being bought by the best units out there. Yet you continue to ignore this fact. I own Aimpoint T1’s and have no problem using the Eotech line as well.

Yes Eotech has problems with some of there products, but does that mean things never change ?
Click to expand...

SO how does the rail locking system make the 416 more reliable than a standard DI AR??

The 416 is a solution for those who need short guns with a can and don't want the excessive blowback often associated with such a setup. The extreme tests mean very little as no one has access to several thousand rounds at one time for any purpose other than torture testing. The BCM filthy 14 rifle ate over 30K rounds without cleaning. The DI system has been doing just fine for 50 plus years. Again, the 416 is a solution to a very unique problem. A problem that can be solved with flow through baffleless suppressors like those made by OSS. No block back and no need for pistol system or adjustable DI gun to make it work.

Hilo71 said:
LOL, yeah :cool:
To be clear though, most top tier units allow a lot of individual choice for kit. So when you see a SAS or DEVGRU dude kicking down a door wearing an eotech, I think his trust in that optic should just make haters shut up.
Click to expand...

No offense but the individual choices by some folks does not validate the gear. I will say it again. Eotech, the FBI and NSW Crane all agree that Eotech sights are defective. Why do you people insist or denying this when it has come right from the manufacturer?? Oh and yes things change, but Eotech proceeded to sell bogus products for a decade without fixing the issues. That isn't progress that's fraud.
 
Kidd X said:
You need to check your comprehension. The tint in a reddot has ZERO effect on performance, it's a gripe parroted by misinformed bench shooters. IF you can't get past a little blue tint you're in for a rough ride in life..

What's "best" with a magnifier is awash as no reddot with a magnifier is a steller setup, it's a stop gap that was created before rugged LPV's came to be.

The average shooter is free to buy what they please. Others like myself prefer products that won't fail and actually work as advertised.



SO how does the rail locking system make the 416 more reliable than a standard DI AR??

The 416 is a solution for those who need short guns with a can and don't want the excessive blowback often associated with such a setup. The extreme tests mean very little as no one has access to several thousand rounds at one time for any purpose other than torture testing. The BCM filthy 14 rifle ate over 30K rounds without cleaning. The DI system has been doing just fine for 50 plus years. Again, the 416 is a solution to a very unique problem. A problem that can be solved with flow through baffleless suppressors like those made by OSS. No block back and no need for pistol system or adjustable DI gun to make it work.



No offense but the individual choices by some folks does not validate the gear. I will say it again. Eotech, the FBI and NSW Crane all agree that Eotech sights are defective. Why do you people insist or denying this when it has come right from the manufacturer?? Oh and yes things change, but Eotech proceeded to sell bogus products for a decade without fixing the issues. That isn't progress that's fraud.
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The 416 also offers a more consistant recoil impulse suppressed or not suppressed. The slotted hg retains zero with devices after removal and reinstallation. However i don't see the applicability translating to di guns. The overall parts life and barrel life under hard use is also longer. Chamber cook off is also higher. And some models have the otb capability.

Admittedly the benefits affect a niche group of hardcore dudes that shoot a lot. But it is definitely has more benefits than just the suppressor capability.

I do agree on the magnifiers though. With modern lpv and some optic concepts like the specter 1/4x I don't see the benefit of one. Except maybe on certain mounted applications.
 
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Dexter Morgan said:
You openly state that you don't care about who has the clearest glass, or the best reticle.
Nor do you care about which system works best when paired with a magnifier.

And since you don't care about such things; Eotech is definitely not for you.
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That's as if Kidd X is saying, Ferrari sucks because it has bad fuel economy, no space in the trunk and no cup holders. Ignore all the pros and focus only on the cons.

Dexter Morgan said:
But I still don't understand why you would throw away money on an Aimpoint.

For the average shooter; They don't do anything that a $125 Bushnell TRS-25 won't do.
Click to expand...

That's a bit of a stretch. There's more science to it than simply projecting a LED dot onto a piece of glass.
 
Kidd X said:
You need to check your comprehension. The tint in a reddot has ZERO effect on performance, it's a gripe parroted by misinformed bench shooters. IF you can't get past a little blue tint you're in for a rough ride in life..

What's "best" with a magnifier is awash as no reddot with a magnifier is a steller setup, it's a stop gap that was created before rugged LPV's came to be.

The average shooter is free to buy what they please. Others like myself prefer products that won't fail and actually work as advertised.



SO how does the rail locking system make the 416 more reliable than a standard DI AR??

The 416 is a solution for those who need short guns with a can and don't want the excessive blowback often associated with such a setup. The extreme tests mean very little as no one has access to several thousand rounds at one time for any purpose other than torture testing. The BCM filthy 14 rifle ate over 30K rounds without cleaning. The DI system has been doing just fine for 50 plus years. Again, the 416 is a solution to a very unique problem. A problem that can be solved with flow through baffleless suppressors like those made by OSS. No block back and no need for pistol system or adjustable DI gun to make it work.



No offense but the individual choices by some folks does not validate the gear. I will say it again. Eotech, the FBI and NSW Crane all agree that Eotech sights are defective. Why do you people insist or denying this when it has come right from the manufacturer?? Oh and yes things change, but Eotech proceeded to sell bogus products for a decade without fixing the issues. That isn't progress that's fraud.
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Its not the individual choice of "some" folks, lol. Come on you know this. Eotechs are in WIDESPREAD tier 1 operator use right now. Today. As we speak. That is a validation. Arguing this is like trying to alter history. You can argue are they better than say an aimpoint, but saying is is not valid gear? Fallacy.
 
One key aspect of the 4 MOA variation that many people are not considering is that extreme temperatures have an effect on powder temperature and thus, muzzle velocity. In such variance from the zero temperature, muzzle velocity can have a variation over 200-300 fps. Depending on ammunition, barrel twist, and length of barrel, this can equal 4 MOA in itself.
Average engagement distances for any conflict and self-defense fall well below 200 yards. You hear and read about plenty of long-range engagements, but they are far less common than the average. Plus, no sniper in there right mind is going to use an electronic non-magnified optic on their sniper rifle to engage the enemy. The EOTech is and always has been for the use of fast acquisition at close range or close quarters combat. 200 yards would be 8 inches of variation. Eliminating human error, still plenty of accuracy to hit a torso.
Any battery-powered optic has the probability of failing in extreme cold and heat. No matter the battery, none perform as well in temperature extremes. Back-up iron sights and non-battery powered illuminated reticle optics will always be more reliable.
Can you keep your confidence? Losing confidence in your equipment can do some serious damage when it comes time to perform. Whether EOTech or not, go to the range, test your optics, and use equipment that inspires confidence. If you are comfortable and confident, don’t fix something that really isn’t broken.

Snipped from:
ht tps://loadoutroom.com/17325/worried-eotech-failing/
 
Kidd X said:
.

Vortex is junk, anyone with a room temperature IQ knows this.
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Jerry Miculek has nice things to say about Vortex. He isn't too bad of a shooter. Can't speak to his IQ though I'd imagine he has his run of any sponsor he wants.
 
GuiltySpark said:
Jerry Miculek has nice things to say about Vortex. He isn't too bad of a shooter. Can't speak to his IQ though I'd imagine he has his run of any sponsor he wants.
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I don't remember hearing a peep from him about vortex till they sponsored him. And you can ask any serious distance school which brands they recommend you avoid. I know for a fact furlong recommends not bringing a vortex to his classes because they have a high failure rate.

I know I'm hearing a lot of fanfaring over the razor hd around here but the last big optic test i read even that tracked fairly poorly compared to its competition and some even less expensive rival options.

But hey. Epic warranty am I right?
 
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I have scopes from Elcan, eotech, vortex and looking at Trijicon soon. Ill have to search for what furlong is saying about Vortex. Do you still have that big optic test handy?
 
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