P14 303 vs Lee Enfield 303

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I have both ,but not sure if one has any advantatage over the other . I know the Ross had some issues although a neighbour swore by his as a fine shooter.When and where as the P14 issued and used?
I posted this under 'hunting rifles' rather than milsurp,as they are 'sporters' not collectors.
 
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The Ross is a hunting/target rifle that was turning in to a battle rifle. It is the most accurate because of the tight tolerances. The No1 and No4 are true battle rifles and is the most robust but least accurate of the 3 mentioned. The Pattern 14 is somewhere in between. In full military configuration it has a longer sight radius and is heavier than the No1 or No4 which makes them inherently more accurate and it is a much stronger rifle than the Ross. It is the best of both worlds but the least desired in terms of collectability. Go figure?
 
The P14 is significantly more robust than a Lee Enfield dude. It's basically a mauser action, which due to front locking lugs, can handle much higher pressures than any rear locking rifle. That's why P14/P17 actions are often donors for massive cartridges like that .577 abomination of a round. Also, parts break much less than a Lee, which often have problems with bolt heads. If you don't believe it, check out why the P14 was made (hint, it was made to replace the Lee Enfield, and was in its original guise supposed to chamber .276 British, which is only a little bit less potent than a 7mm RM, which is incredible for a round developed in 1913). In no way, shape, or form, is a Lee Enfield tougher or more reliable than a P14. Lee's do however, take a 10 round mag, which is pretty sweet. You will find that people here have a soft spots for Lee's and they are certainly good guns, but from a military, and objective standpoint, the P14 is a better rifle. That's not to dismiss the Lee Enfield, but there's a reason Mauser actions are what essentially all modern bolt guns (and most past military rifles) are based around.

Ross Rifles are not rifles made for war, in my opinion. Too finicky and sensitive for a bolt action rifle.

EDIT: P14's were made in the US by 3 companies; Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone Remington Arms (a plant made by Remington, to solely produce P14's). They were sold to the British, who used them as Home Guard rifles, to ensure they only had Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. III's on the front (to simplify parts for armorers). When the US entered the war, they needed more rifles, because the Springfield 1903 was too hard to tool up for again to issue to the AEF, and because they were having problems with heat treatment for the 1903's recievers. The rifle they went with was a P14 converted to .30-06, with the volley sights removed, and the "wide belly" of the P14 removed, in what was issued as the M1917 rifle, or the P17 as many call it. So it's ironic, the British rifle, with a few tweeks, saw more service with the Americans than it did with the British. The Americans were making 10 000 P17's A DAY in 1918.

It's also considered by General Julian Hatcher, to be the best rifle of WWI
 
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P14/M1917 are probably the best designed bolt action milsurp ever made.
British/German design, made in USA. Tough as hell and accurate.
 
Lee has the faster bolt, detachable magazine, simpler production. The P14 came about as a pre war replacement .276 calibre for the Lee but war came and it was re-bored to 303 and then mass made in the USA. The Lee is the better military rifle, the P14 is a better rifle. When the Lee was made in it's final form with a peep sight and simplified production features, it became the better rifle and better military rifle. The jungle carbine was a step backwoods but still a cool rifle.
 
p.Rundle said:
The P14 is significantly more robust than a Lee Enfield dude. It's basically a mauser action, which due to front locking lugs, can handle much higher pressures than any rear locking rifle. That's why P14/P17 actions are often donors for massive cartridges like that .577 abomination of a round. Also, parts break much less than a Lee, which often have problems with bolt heads. If you don't believe it, check out why the P14 was made (hint, it was made to replace the Lee Enfield, and was in its original guise supposed to chamber .276 British, which is only a little bit less potent than a 7mm RM, which is incredible for a round developed in 1913). In no way, shape, or form, is a Lee Enfield tougher or more reliable than a P14. Lee's do however, take a 10 round mag, which is pretty sweet. You will find that people here have a soft spots for Lee's and they are certainly good guns, but from a military, and objective standpoint, the P14 is a better rifle. That's not to dismiss the Lee Enfield, but there's a reason Mauser actions are what essentially all modern bolt guns (and most past military rifles) are based around.

Ross Rifles are not rifles made for war, in my opinion. Too finicky and sensitive for a bolt action rifle.

EDIT: P14's were made in the US by 3 companies; Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone Remington Arms (a plant made by Remington, to solely produce P14's). They were sold to the British, who used them as Home Guard rifles, to ensure they only had Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. III's on the front (to simplify parts for armorers). When the US entered the war, they needed more rifles, because the Springfield 1903 was too hard to tool up for again to issue to the AEF, and because they were having problems with heat treatment for the 1903's recievers. The rifle they went with was a P14 converted to .30-06, with the volley sights removed, and the "wide belly" of the P14 removed, in what was issued as the M1917 rifle, or the P17 as many call it. So it's ironic, the British rifle, with a few tweeks, saw more service with the Americans than it did with the British. The Americans were making 10 000 P17's A DAY in 1918.

It's also considered by General Julian Hatcher, to be the best rifle of WWI
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I wish people would do their research or at lease read before allowing their ego to speak. I never said that the No1 or No4 was stronger than the Pattern 14. I said the Pattern 14 is stronger than the Ross and more accurate than the No1 and No4. I know this from reviews and first hand personal experience because I own all of these rifles. BTW, The P17 does not exist. The name of the rifle you are referring to is the Pattern 1917 Enfield. Only people who are NOT in the know wrongly refer to it as the P17. There is no arguement that the 1917 is one of the best is not the best and most underrated battle rifles.
 
I've got all three variants, I enjoy each for the features they have. While the Ross and P-14 tend to be more accurate, they can be more "finicky" - particularly in the area of feeding cartridges from the magazine. The LE's seem to perform much better in this regard, have a smoother action, and a 10 round magazine - easy to see why they won out as the preferred battle rifle.
 
Garaldtao said:
I wish people would do their research or at lease read before allowing their ego to speak. I never said that the No1 or No4 was stronger than the Pattern 14. I said the Pattern 14 is stronger than the Ross and more accurate than the No1 and No4. I know this from reviews and first hand personal experience because I own all of these rifles. BTW, The P17 does not exist. The name of the rifle you are referring to is the Pattern 1917 Enfield. Only people who are NOT in the know wrongly refer to it as the P17. There is no arguement that the 1917 is one of the best is not the best and most underrated battle rifles.
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You stated that the P14/M1917 was more robust than all three mentioned. That is highly debateable as the Ross was tested the significantly higher pressures than any of the Enfields. However, of them the P14/M1917 was probably the best overall rifle, giving the best balance of firepower, accuracy and suitability for the environment.
 
fraserdw said:
Lee has the faster bolt, detachable magazine, simpler production. The P14 came about as a pre war replacement .276 calibre for the Lee but war came and it was re-bored to 303 and then mass made in the USA. The Lee is the better military rifle, the P14 is a better rifle. When the Lee was made in it's final form with a peep sight and simplified production features, it became the better rifle and better military rifle. The jungle carbine was a step backwoods but still a cool rifle.
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Except it's still a rimmed cartridge, and it took another 25 years of development to add decent sights lol.
 
I agree that, as a military rifle, the P14/M1917 is likely the best overall. I don't accept the statement that the P14/M1917 is stronger, let alone much stronger, than the Ross (Mk III). The P14 action is basically a Mauser design. It has been demonstrated through destructive testing the Mk III Ross is stronger than the 98 Mauser and therefore potentially stronger than the P14.
 
As I recall PH did several ve rsions of the Lee Enfield ,one was with the original stock, cut down and the other had a new stock.Not sure if they used the original barrels or installed new ones .Very fine sporting rifles...
 
Hitzy said:
BSA did who were right across the street from PH. Churchill as well.
Remington also made a commercial version.... Model 30? Can't remember...
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Yes, the model 30 Express by Remington was a commercial M17 rifle. The M725 Remington also retained a feature of the M17 as well [Safety type]
Many, Many BSA P14, M17 conversions to sporter rifles out there.
I personally have a P14 sporterized, but it is a 303 Epps. It will flirt with factory 30-06 speeds.
I have a M17 that has been extensively reworked with a ####-on-opening conversion, Timney trigger, Laminate stock,
Rebarrelled and chambered in 308 Norma Magnum. It is accurate and fast.
I also have a freshly rebarrelled M10 Ross that has been sporterized. McGowen barrel, reblued and chambered in it's original 303 British.
A very accurate rifle, and the action is quite robust. I load using 308 Winchester data, which it digests with ease. Dave.
 
Garaldtao said:
BTW, The P17 does not exist. The name of the rifle you are referring to is the Pattern 1917 Enfield. Only people who are NOT in the know wrongly refer to it as the P17.
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Er, the Pattern 1917 doesn't exist either. It's the M1917 - properly the US Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917.

So, yeah.

I never said that the No1 or No4 was stronger than the Pattern 14.
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The Ross is a hunting/target rifle that was turning in to a battle rifle. It is the most accurate because of the tight tolerances. The No1 and No4 are true battle rifles and is the most robust but least accurate of the 3 mentioned. The Pattern 14 is somewhere in between.
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May not be what you meant, but that's exactly what you said.
 
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