.22 'backfire' help diagnosing please

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northerndad

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Hello,

I was out target shooting with my son, he was using his Scorpio .22 and bulk winchster ammo. He shot, there was a HUGE loud bang, and smoke came out of the top of the receiver and from around the mag. I was standing nearby and it shocked me, and he ended up in tears and with ringing in his ears from the noise despite earmuffs.

After letting the gun sit for over a minute, I inspected it and found that the spent casing was properly seated but had ruptured around the rim.

The ammo in the mag was covered in black residue. The bolt and bore both had a lot of moisture on and in them, which is a bit strange. The .22 has a milled receiver and it visually looks fine. The bolt also seems fine, mag looks ok though dirty now. I cleaned the bore with a snake and shot a couple rounds and it shot fine.

Can any of you more experienced rimfire shooters tell me what the hell happened? It was scary as hell and I never imagined a .22 could be that loud under any circumstance. We're now suspecting the ammo and are considering switching to some of our federal bulk or even spending the extra for CCI. My guess is that maybe he didn't fully seat the bolt handle and the bullet ruptured? Because this gun seams to seal up pretty snug and I can't see the powder "backfiring" like it did unless the bolt handle wasn't 100% seated?
 
That's scary poop for a young guy. Hopefully it does not make the little fella gunshy.
I would not call myself more experienced than the next guy, but I have fired plenty of rimfire in the past 37 years.
I don't care for Winchester ammo much anymore. If you want to know how I really feel.
Take the word "hit" and put an "S" on the front of it.

A friend had a case split around the rim of the brass just a couple weeks ago. I have never seen it happen before that.
I think he was using his heavy barrel synthetic stock Savage at the time.

We also get inconsistent amounts of powder in cartridges. Loud, Loud, quiet, Loud, really quiet. I once told my friend to check to make sure the round left the barrel. I was scared he would fire another round with it plugged.

We have also seen many rounds that had to be rotated and struck multiple times before ignition. (per box of 50)
Many other ammo brands had no issues in the clean well functioning firearms.
 
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I had a similar incident with the bulk Browning BPR ammo in my Savage Mk. II BTV. Huge bang, smoke from the vent holes and magazine well, although in my case, it didn't look like much crap got into the magazine. Case extracted fine but looked a bit deformed around the rim.

The previous shot felt like it fired fine, and I was shooting a 10 shot group, so I may not have noticed the shot didn't leave a hole. One friend suggested that I may have experienced a partial bore obstruction if the previous bullet had come apart in the barrel. I don't know how plausible that is vs. a complete obstruction, but the result was a lot of overpressure and the same effect that you described.
 
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northerndad said:
Hello,

I was out target shooting with my son, he was using his Scorpio .22 and bulk winchster ammo. He shot, there was a HUGE loud bang, and smoke came out of the top of the receiver and from around the mag. I was standing nearby and it shocked me, and he ended up in tears and with ringing in his ears from the noise despite earmuffs.

After letting the gun sit for over a minute, I inspected it and found that the spent casing was properly seated but had ruptured around the rim.

The ammo in the mag was covered in black residue. The bolt and bore both had a lot of moisture on and in them, which is a bit strange. The .22 has a milled receiver and it visually looks fine. The bolt also seems fine, mag looks ok though dirty now. I cleaned the bore with a snake and shot a couple rounds and it shot fine.

Can any of you more experienced rimfire shooters tell me what the hell happened? It was scary as hell and I never imagined a .22 could be that loud under any circumstance. We're now suspecting the ammo and are considering switching to some of our federal bulk or even spending the extra for CCI. My guess is that maybe he didn't fully seat the bolt handle and the bullet ruptured? Because this gun seams to seal up pretty snug and I can't see the powder "backfiring" like it did unless the bolt handle wasn't 100% seated?
Click to expand...

It happens. Winchester I see it in as well as Federal BULK PACKS. Remember, BULK PACKS are rounds that are slightly FLAWED!!! When a company is pounding out 5 million rounds a day, the good stuff goes into 50rd boxes, and the stuff that fails 1-2/5QC checks goes into the bulk boxes. It is a fact that most rimfire shooters are not aware of because price trumps all else, they just want something that goes bang.

Rarely have I seen a separation on the head, rim or a side blowout in boxed ammo (Federal 38gn IIRC Boxed )

Just a fact of life


 
It happens.
All the better reason to wear a decent set of glasses while shooting.

Every maker has had the odd bad batch of brass, and if you shoot enough, it happens more than once.

If it happens regularly, start really paying attention to the fired cases, checking for swelling and bulges.
I had a Stevens Favorite, which would split cases with predictable regularity.
Could be that the ammo is bad, could be the gun, or the combination of the two, but without some looking into it, you are guessing.

Shooting glasses.
Now you know why!
 
Got Juice? said:
It happens. Winchester I see it in as well as Federal BULK PACKS. Remember, BULK PACKS are rounds that are slightly FLAWED!!! When a company is pounding out 5 million rounds a day, the good stuff goes into 50rd boxes, and the stuff that fails 1-2/5QC checks goes into the bulk boxes. It is a fact that most rimfire shooters are not aware of because price trumps all else, they just want something that goes bang.

Rarely have I seen a separation on the head, rim or a side blowout in boxed ammo (Federal 38gn IIRC Boxed )

Just a fact of life
]
Click to expand...

Horse poo!

The bolded part of the quote.
 
I've had cheap remington blow right out the back of the bolt on my Scorpio; undersized cases and high pressure gas blows by and straight out the firing pin hole, out the back of the bolt. Hits you right in the face. I get the best accuracy in mine with CCI std. velocity, and no more issues. Same problem with my JW15; it likes ELEY sport the best; no more issues with it.
 
'
Every maker has had the odd bad batch of brass, and if you shoot enough, it happens more than once.

I have had a few similar blow-outs from the rim of .22 cartridges. When you have lived in the West for over 40 years, you tend to fire a lot of .22 rimfires at Gophers and such.

My first thought on this was a weak brass rim. Also, a firing pin that is TOO SHARP or a heavy firing pin spring can cause the rim to be "punctured" rather than compressed.

Glad that the little guy is all right. Shooting glasses are a MUST when firing any rifle.

.
 
My first thought is that there might have been a squib the round before and a bullet lodged in the barrel.
It's an easy thing to have happen if you are just plinking away and not concentrating on every shot. There's a click instead of bang so you assume a dud or missfeed, rack the boys of and keep going. There's a reason for so many old .22's with bulges in the barrel.
I would push a patch through to see if you can feel a bulge and strip down the action for a cleaning and inspection.
The possibility of a bad case is certainly valid too. When you think of the billions of rounds made there's going to be a few bad ones slip through.

Glad there's no injury and hopefully no damage.
 
My youngest son had the exact same thing happen about 6 months ago using the same ammo. The case head separated and caused the same experience to a T. He was shooting a Cooey single shot. I have since gotten rid of the Winchester white box and won’t buy anymore of it. It had never happened before and hasn’t happened since.

Here’s a link to the thread I started. Some good info in it....

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1537070-22-cartridge-failure
 
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As others have noted, if you shoot long enough...you're going to have the odd "wake up call" using 22 rifles. I think most people are inclined to be dismissive of quality concerns, rifle cleanliness...sometimes even safety when it comes to 22s when in all seriousness, the same level of care is required no matter whether it's rimfire...or centerfire. It's why I sometimes roll my eyes when I read things like "I haven't cleaned my 22 in 10 years...and she runs fine!" There is allot of pressure even with the lowly 22, and proper care/good ammo can..and usually do make all the difference! Anyhow, very glad everybody is OK...and hopefully your son wasn't too spooked.

Out of the countless, thousands of rounds of 22 ammo I've shot in almost 30 years..I've never had a complete separation. I've had split cases though, resulting in hot, waxy/oily particles blowing back into my face. I wear prescription glasses and opt for polycarbonate lenses, so for rimfires...I tell myself that's enough. I will add...any time I've had issues with a case splitting, it was always Remington or Winchester ammo...and either a Cooey single shot or Norinco rifle. I stopped buying Remington ammo altogether after the worst episode (looked like I had pink freckles on my right cheek for 3 days) and never used Winchester white box in anything until about year ago. 99% of what I shoot these days is CCI, with a healthy dose of SK for good measure...and a little Federal Gold Medal Target. I recently picked-up a couple of types of Eley to try as well.

My suggestion? I wouldn't use any more of the ammo from that box, and contact Winchester to tell them what happened. If you kept the case, be prepared to send them some photos. I suspect they'll ask for some details/lot# from the box. In the meantime, grab some higher-quality CCI ammo like Standard Velocity. It's not that pricey, and it is readily available. If your son is a little trigger shy...maybe consider some CCI Quiet-22 to warm him up to the idea before moving to louder/faster stuff. CCI's selection of ammo types is staggering~something for every application, and it's all very consistent stuff.
 
Funny thing................no mention of hearing protection?
Ringing in the ears at that young age isn't a good start.

Dress them up for shooting folks.
 
kamlooky said:
Funny thing................no mention of hearing protection?
Ringing in the ears at that young age isn't a good start.

Dress them up for shooting folks.
Click to expand...

northerndad said:
Hello,

I was out target shooting with my son, he was using his Scorpio .22 and bulk winchster ammo. He shot, there was a HUGE loud bang, and smoke came out of the top of the receiver and from around the mag. I was standing nearby and it shocked me, and he ended up in tears and with ringing in his ears from the noise despite earmuffs.
Click to expand...

geez looky, it's in the first sentence!
 
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