Just when you thought the new gun bill was our greatest threat.......
- Thread starter Frontier Firearms
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The Anti-lead movement has been going on for decades as a disguise for the gun grabbers. We lost a very good and local Shotshell manufacturer in Edmonton 20 years ago from this. The Hazardous Goods Emergency response truck were dispatched a few time to a gravel loading area behind the plant in the west end at a company called Superior Canadian Shotshells. The guy had an awesome product but he was not supported from the sportsmen because people could save 50 cents/box at Walmart. He lost a small fortune fighting the gun grabbers by himself before he finally closed the doors.
Harsh lessons that people have still not learned: Large chains stores are not your friend nor could they care less about you. Small local businesses are not the enemy, They might charge a buck more, but they fight hard everyday to stay in the business and sport that you are so passionate about. The gun grabbers have been taking away our rights for over 50 years and they are not going to stop, It is no longer just paranoid when you've lost half your guns to the government regulations. The term "No Compromise" was not newly coined by the NFA, it was an attitude of people who gave up enough of their rights and possessions.
Stand up for your rights , or lose them for good.
Harsh lessons that people have still not learned: Large chains stores are not your friend nor could they care less about you. Small local businesses are not the enemy, They might charge a buck more, but they fight hard everyday to stay in the business and sport that you are so passionate about. The gun grabbers have been taking away our rights for over 50 years and they are not going to stop, It is no longer just paranoid when you've lost half your guns to the government regulations. The term "No Compromise" was not newly coined by the NFA, it was an attitude of people who gave up enough of their rights and possessions.
Stand up for your rights , or lose them for good.
Stop it, don't try and show them logic, their heads may explode. I shoot steel shot waterfowl hunting and it really wouldn't bother me to shoot steel shot when upland hunting too, but right now there is limited steel shot in low brass 2 3/4 shells. And how will they make a .22lr that is lead free? Reminds me of my Mom arguing with me about oil.
"We have to stop using oil"
"Great, park you car, throw your electronics and anything else made of plastic away and most of your clothes too, then we can start to talk."
Things like this are not something you can change in a day or even 10 years, they need a viable replacement to lead first, that is affordable and functions 99% like lead.
then get ready to pay waaay more for your ammo in the future. Just another way they tried in the USA to make shooting a prohibitive sport. they tried it down south as a workaround to the second amendment to force ammo prices through the roof. Luckily for them they have the power to stop it and the EPA has new priorities after Obama
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- SW Ontario
And where does lead come from? The ground. This is all about $$$.
The EPA is run by someone who sued the EPA multiple times. They're a complete joke at this point. I wouldn't trust their opinion on much of anything, they're supposed to be environmentally focused and they're trying to deny man made climate change despite the fact 2017 was the warmest year ever recorded, sea level is rising at unprecedented rates and co2 concentrations are higher today than any time in the past 600 000 years.
What's the price difference between Hornady ammo loaded with a premium lead bullet, vs the same thing with a Barnes? Next to nothing I'd bet.
Lead free ammo is more expensive for two reasons. The biggest reason is they don't make bargain brand ammo, it's all match grade/premium ammo, or defensive ammo in the case of handguns. In these cases, they're comparably priced to an equal lead product. The second is simply economy of scale. There isn't enough demand for it. If they outlawed lead ammo in usa/canada, they would be forced to produce more and cheaper lead free ammo. Copper is more expensive than lead, for sure (3x the cost basically i think?) but the rest of it, the brass case, powder and primer are no different.
Therefore, prices wouldn't go up nearly as much as most around here seem to think it would. Economies of scale and bigger consumer demand would keep prices quite close.
Of course, it would eliminate cheap surplus ammo because there is no way the military would swap, and the economy of scale would only work if the USA banned it, so I'm not down with any Canada only bans, that would really suck.
As for lead coming from the earth, that's a really weak argument. Uranium comes from the earth, and is even denser than lead. Should we switch to that?
This will fundamentally alter the way some ammunition performs. 55gr 5.55 won’t fragment anymore. It may now just be armor piercing. And I mean level III armour if you’re throwing a copper round at 3200 FPS
Edit:
I just looked at prices. About the same. Big to do about nothing. I’ll gladly switch
Edit:
I just looked at prices. About the same. Big to do about nothing. I’ll gladly switch
Solid polymer rounds? Or are they polymer jacketed lead? Please provide a link.
So maybe we can ask Norinco or whomever that makes the crates of ammo we buy to eliminate lead from their ammo. Just a steel core coated in a copper jacket? Or somehow change the way fmj ammo is made by sealing off the back end of the projectile to make a true full metal jacket. I say Norinco because I don't know of anyone else who makes current cases of "surplus" ammo . Every other country seems to have made theirs in the 70s or 80s. Although it may seem like sometimes some of those craters get opened up and the ammo gets modified somehow. Maybe a large importer can open up all crates, pull the projectiles and insert new projectiles. I've been buying projectiles at about $10us/100 for 5.56 but open back fmj. I guess add a couple bucks and I'd get Barnes type projectiles. If that started being the trend, other boolit makers would get on board and who knows, maybe the price of Barnes would come down a little since there would be a fair bit more competition. Like any change, when we are comfortable, we don't like it. It'll cost a bit to adapt but in the long run it shouldn't be a major hiccup. Our kids and theirs will be the ones to reap the rewards. We will be the generation that everyone in the future will look back on and say it was us that paid the extra cost to ensure a cleaner, safer future for everyone henceforth.
The gun range i shoot at is located on a drinking water resevoir. Last summer the water was tested over 30 days and no problems found. The 100 yard range starts about 50 yds/mtrs from waters edge
The nooses are slowly tightening around our necks and still there are plenty of chicken littles who are willing to help tighten them. Fewer options equal dwindling opportunities for those who enjoy the shooting sports. Be very careful what you concede because you'll never get it back. They push and you relent. They win and you lose it all, forever.
Lead doesn't leach into surface water as many people might think. The enviro-alarmists and the gun grabbers would love for you to believe it though. Heck, they'd love it if you never set foot outside your house again, let alone picked up a gun for ANY reason.
Look at California if you want to see your future as a spineless gun owner and sportsman.
Lead doesn't leach into surface water as many people might think. The enviro-alarmists and the gun grabbers would love for you to believe it though. Heck, they'd love it if you never set foot outside your house again, let alone picked up a gun for ANY reason.
Look at California if you want to see your future as a spineless gun owner and sportsman.
Love the new guy at the EPA I hope he continues breaking down the Lefts propaganda. I cant stand the government here taking land owned by farmers out of production for their pet causes. Carbon taxes= money grab. Lead ban= higher cost= less hunters. If you shot it with lead and eat it so be it.
Yes and price of other "alternatives" listed copper or copper-zinc alloy, steel, tungsten or bismuth
Steel $0.43/lb
Tungsten $31.40/lb
Bismuth $12.40/lb
The alternatives are much more expensive raw materials, switching over production to them on a larger scale will not decrease pricing on them by much. In fact it could increase demand for the material increasing pricing further due to supply limitations. Steel is cheaper but you can't make an all steel bullet.
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