BCL - New name, Same old clowns!

TheReal_Vader

TheReal_Vader

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Ontario
I would like to start off by saying that my experience is NOT a reflection of NEA/BCL retailers or distributors, they have been awesome and extremely helpful!

About a year ago, I purchased a brand new 16.1" NEA rifle in 7.62x39. When I received the rifle I immediately checked the headspace, as I have owned many NEA rifles and know this to be a common issue. The rifle chambered the NO-GO gauge with plenty of extra space. I immediately contacted NEA and returned the upper for repair. After they received the upper, I was contacted and informed that the barrel was out of headspace. They informed me that they no longer manufactured the 16" barrels, but they said they replaced the bolt and it was now within "maximum allowable headspace" and was safe to fire. They also threw in a free muzzle brake for my troubles.

After waiting several months the rifle was returned to me. Again, I tested the headspace only to find that it still chambered the NO-GO without any issue. I decided to take the rifle to the range and test it out. The results were abysmal, the best group I could shoot was about 6" at 100yds. I took my Mini-30 for comparison and it was shooting groups half this size with the same ammo. The NEA rifle was also visibly stretching cases and allowing the primers to protrude about 0.015" proud of the case heads. Again, I contacted NEA and asked to return the upper for repair.

They received the upper in early September of 2017. I was contacted and they informed me of what I already knew, the rifle was out of spec and they needed to replace the barrel. After this the line pretty much went dead, my emails went unanswered. After contacting my retailer in regards to the lack of response, they were able to provoke a response from NEA. I was informed that they were awaiting a new bolt and once it arrived the upper would be returned. It wasn't until February, after again involving my retailer that I was able to get another response. They informed me that they no longer made the 16" 7.62 barrels, (something I already knew) asked me if I would take a 14.5" barrel instead. I assumed they were having a replacement 16" barrel manufactured. I explained to them that I purchased a 16.1" barrel, the lower was registered with a 16.1" barrel, and I wanted a 16.1" barrel. A few days later they agreed to manufacture a replacement barrel.

Since February 26th I have not received a single response from anyone at NEA/BCL. My upper was returned for a basic barrel swap and has been at their facility for over 8 months, and its been nearly a year since it was returned the first time! I have pretty much given up hope that I will ever see this upper again. I wish I could say that this has been my only bad experience with NEA customer service, but I have several more stories just like this one!

Despite the haters, I have supported NEA from the beginning as they are a Canadian manufacturer that has been making AR's more available and affordable for Canadian customers, and increasing the number of restricted firearms in private hands, something I support wholeheartedly. I understand that ALL manufacturers have quality control issues, especially new upstart companies and I understand that the only way these companies grow and become better is if people support them. I'm also a believer that quality control issues can easily be rectified with good customer service, unfortunately NEA/BCL does not have this. As a result, I will NEVER purchase another NEA/BCL product again!

NEA may have a new name, but I can assure you it's the same old clowns and the same TERRIBLE customer support. :bangHead:
 
Wow thats so lame. I cant imagine having a gun for that long out for repair and not having it returned back to me.
 
I had my issues with BCL/NEA, I for one will never buy one of their products again. I don't care if they are a Canadian company or not. If they produce crap and have poor customer support, then they deserve to go out of business. But there are all sorts of BCL/NEA Fanboys out there and all I can say is buyer beware, you get what you pay for.
 
Never have, and never will spend my money on their product for this exact reason.

If you want to support Canadian business, keep an eye on black leaf industries. They've got some great things coming down the pipe and are a bunch of solid dudes.
 
Wow. I never knew they were that bad. I had an Ar-15 upper that wouldn't fit any lower I could find. I never bothered to send it anywhere, to be honest I've heard it's a waste of time anyway.
I have heard lots of stories of their bad quality...but bad customer service in the Canadian gun industry is worse.
 
best to have done the repairs on your own dime
that's what I am doing, mine gas some serious ftf issues I'm troubleshooting it myself.
if all fails I am getting a new barrel gas block bcg and buffer spring installed on my own dime. No point sending a rifle back for repairs and it being swallowed by a black hole
 
Do you guys have any feed back on Kodiak Defence? They are making the WK180C and I'm hoping they do better than NEA
 
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When the BCL 102 hype started, I just shook my head. Name change, pre-orders, new design untested by consumers. It blew my mind that they were able to sell these things like hotcakes the way they did. But that's all it's about....sell. Good luck boys when the problems begin.
 
Before the 102 was released I tried to stay at least neutral about NEA products, I'd heard of many issues but they were usually followed by reports of good customer service. I used an upper/lower and BCG in a build that worked great so I knew they are capable of making products that work. I thought that they were making a lot of rifles and parts and since you only hear about the bad ones for the most part I figured it must still be a small percentage of issues overall.
Then the new name and the 102 were announced, I was leery and since I won't do pre-orders figured I'd just wait till they caught up with demand and I could buy one in person at a local retailer. Then the reports of problems started rolling in. If I recall correctly the first batch was 77 rifles and the number of people with defective rifles was pretty high considering how few were sold.
That was enough for me, no 102 in my future even though I really would love to have a non restricted AR-10 in my collection.

What really blows me away is how many people keep buying their products even after all the negative reports. Willing to roll the dice with $2000 just because it's non restricted then instead of claiming warranty and forcing them to fix their mistakes owners just started replacing all kinds of parts out of their own pocket.
To me that is absolutely idiotic, by not holding them accountable and forcing them to honor their warranty and fix the crap they produce people are letting them off the hook and for the most part saying that it's ok to rip us off.

Then they sell out pre-order number two and after they take everyone's money they change the design. Normally this wouldn't be a huge issue if they were making improvements to address reliability issues but instead they just made it look a little better and at the same time made a bunch of parts incompatible reducing the consumers options for aftermarket parts.

The title of the tread New name, same old clowns turns out to be very appropriate.

I'm not sure how anyone can support these guys and it blows my mind that guys will overlook all of NEA's history and spend their money on these rifles.
Why does a BCL102 cost $1000 more than an NEA/BCL-15? Pretty much the same materials, same cost of production, and now we see they are built to the same standards. The 102 should be $1000 and any issues whatsoever with the rifle should be dealt with quickly by them. Unfortunately their fantastic warranty seems to be lacking any accountability for getting the customers firearm repaired and back to them in a timely manner. The attitude appears to be that if they make the first trip back for service (on the customers dime) so frustrating that the guy gives up and just fixes it himself after that they can focus on making more junk/money.

It's unfortunate that even though they get it right once in a while and the rifle functions as advertised for the most part they're either having drinking parties at work or they really don't care about the Canadian market. How could so many blatant issues make it through the QC department and get shipped out to customers?
They claim to have military contracts with other countries and all I can say is, those poor soldiers. If I was trusting my rifle with my life an NEA/BCL is the last rifle I'd want in my hands.

After all that we've seen so far (if a person chooses to actually open their eyes) I wouldn't pay more than $500 for one of these off the EE and they would pretty much have to give it to me for a free trial before I'd buy one new. After a week or two of testing I'd negotiate the sale price and return it if common ground couldn't be reached as to it's actual worth.
 
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PM me your warranty reference number and I'll get a hold of them. Remember, if they are making a new barrel it could take months as they can't just make one barrel, it will have to wait until the next batch of 7.62x39 barrels are run. My suggestion would be to get a 14.5" barrel as a replacement. There was only ever one run of 16.1" 7.62x39 barrels made about 4-6 years ago and it was very small.

Ryan

TheReal_Vader said:
I would like to start off by saying that my experience is NOT a reflection of NEA/BCL retailers or distributors, they have been awesome and extremely helpful!

About a year ago, I purchased a brand new 16.1" NEA rifle in 7.62x39. When I received the rifle I immediately checked the headspace, as I have owned many NEA rifles and know this to be a common issue. The rifle chambered the NO-GO gauge with plenty of extra space. I immediately contacted NEA and returned the upper for repair. After they received the upper, I was contacted and informed that the barrel was out of headspace. They informed me that they no longer manufactured the 16" barrels, but they said they replaced the bolt and it was now within "maximum allowable headspace" and was safe to fire. They also threw in a free muzzle brake for my troubles.

After waiting several months the rifle was returned to me. Again, I tested the headspace only to find that it still chambered the NO-GO without any issue. I decided to take the rifle to the range and test it out. The results were abysmal, the best group I could shoot was about 6" at 100yds. I took my Mini-30 for comparison and it was shooting groups half this size with the same ammo. The NEA rifle was also visibly stretching cases and allowing the primers to protrude about 0.015" proud of the case heads. Again, I contacted NEA and asked to return the upper for repair.

They received the upper in early September of 2017. I was contacted and they informed me of what I already knew, the rifle was out of spec and they needed to replace the barrel. After this the line pretty much went dead, my emails went unanswered. After contacting my retailer in regards to the lack of response, they were able to provoke a response from NEA. I was informed that they were awaiting a new bolt and once it arrived the upper would be returned. It wasn't until February, after again involving my retailer that I was able to get another response. They informed me that they no longer made the 16" 7.62 barrels, (something I already knew) asked me if I would take a 14.5" barrel instead. I assumed they were having a replacement 16" barrel manufactured. I explained to them that I purchased a 16.1" barrel, the lower was registered with a 16.1" barrel, and I wanted a 16.1" barrel. A few days later they agreed to manufacture a replacement barrel.

Since February 26th I have not received a single response from anyone at NEA/BCL. My upper was returned for a basic barrel swap and has been at their facility for over 8 months, and its been nearly a year since it was returned the first time! I have pretty much given up hope that I will ever see this upper again. I wish I could say that this has been my only bad experience with NEA customer service, but I have several more stories just like this one!

Despite the haters, I have supported NEA from the beginning as they are a Canadian manufacturer that has been making AR's more available and affordable for Canadian customers, and increasing the number of restricted firearms in private hands, something I support wholeheartedly. I understand that ALL manufacturers have quality control issues, especially new upstart companies and I understand that the only way these companies grow and become better is if people support them. I'm also a believer that quality control issues can easily be rectified with good customer service, unfortunately NEA/BCL does not have this. As a result, I will NEVER purchase another NEA/BCL product again!

NEA may have a new name, but I can assure you it's the same old clowns and the same TERRIBLE customer support. :bangHead:
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bananarama said:
best to have done the repairs on your own dime
that's what I am doing, mine gas some serious ftf issues I'm troubleshooting it myself.
if all fails I am getting a new barrel gas block bcg and buffer spring installed on my own dime. No point sending a rifle back for repairs and it being swallowed by a black hole
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Did you ever put ALL the original parts back in your gun to see if the gun is the issue or the parts you put in it?

Ryan
 
Chemist said:
PM me your warranty reference number and I'll get a hold of them. Remember, if they are making a new barrel it could take months as they can't just make one barrel, it will have to wait until the next batch of 7.62x39 barrels are run. My suggestion would be to get a 14.5" barrel as a replacement. There was only ever one run of 16.1" 7.62x39 barrels made about 4-6 years ago and it was very small.

Ryan
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Warranty reference number? LOL I have made dozens of warranty claims with NEA over the years and not once have I ever received a warranty reference number. Its rare that they even respond to an email.

I understand a new barrel needs to be manufactured and that takes time. I was under the impression that's what they were doing 8 months ago when they told me they were replacing the barrel. I was shocked when I found out in February that after sitting on my rifle for 6 months, they still hadn't realized that they need to make a new barrel. It would seem their warranty system is completely disorganized and they loose track of what they're actually doing with their customers guns.

I already have a 14.5" gun, I don't want another one. I purchased a 16.1" rifle with a LIFETIME warranty and I don't think its too much to expect NEA/BCL to honor that in a reasonable period of time and at the VERY LEAST respond to a customers email without having to involve their distributor. I wasn't aware that the 'lifetime warranty' actually meant the amount of time it takes them to process and repair your rifle.
 
When you fill out the online warranty form it gives you a reference number. I understanding where you are coming from but if an item is no longer in production, even with a life time warranty, they replace it with a similar product. If your TV breaks under warranty, there are no parts to fix it and none of that model available as it’s discontinued then they replace it with a similar current model or replacement part. I’m not posting this to defend the delay, I’m just letting you know how warranty works.

I have no knowledge of this claim/the situation etc. It’s just for information purposes.


TheReal_Vader said:
Warranty reference number? LOL I have made dozens of warranty claims with NEA over the years and not once have I ever received a warranty reference number. Its rare that they even respond to an email.

I understand a new barrel needs to be manufactured and that takes time. I was under the impression that's what they were doing 8 months ago when they told me they were replacing the barrel. I was shocked when I found out in February that after sitting on my rifle for 6 months, they still hadn't realized that they need to make a new barrel. It would seem their warranty system is completely disorganized and they loose track of what they're actually doing with their customers guns.

I already have a 14.5" gun, I don't want another one. I purchased a 16.1" rifle with a LIFETIME warranty and I don't think its too much to expect NEA/BCL to honor that in a reasonable period of time and at the VERY LEAST respond to a customers email without having to involve their distributor. I wasn't aware that the 'lifetime warranty' actually meant the amount of time it takes them to process and repair your rifle.
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Chemist said:
I’m not posting this to defend the delay, I’m just letting you know how warranty works.

I have no knowledge of this claim/the situation etc. It’s just for information purposes.
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This is for information purposes too; (having been jerked around myself) and in business;

Everything you said is correct, but you missed the part where a reputable company recognizes an absolute disaster.

Which is of no fault to the patron, and falls squarely on the sellers shoulders. A good company will cut the shyt and send a new rifle because in ANY business transaction where a product is bought, paid for and delivered, an 8 month delay for warranty is absolutely unreasonable. Unacceptable regardless of excuse.

It's called "Good-will policy", and I've been offered it over the years by suppliers.

When I set up an account with a supplier there is no deal until " Good will policy" is written in the contract. This gives a retailer leverage to lean on the manufacturer/ supplier in these special situations, and send an entire new product with no delay, or refund in full if a serious QC issue arises . The customer should never be caught in the middle of these disconnects between a retailer and a manufacturer. This disconnect is exactly why the OP is getting screwed over, and it's simply bad business.

If your a retailer, Always negotiate good will policy with the manufacturer, or tell them to shove their product. ESPECIALLY if it is a new product on the market. #1: so the retailer doesn't look like an azz being the middle man who sold the product yet has no control. #2: so the retailer has power to make a warranty decision in house and know his supplier MUST back him thru contract.

If you don't do business this way, a bad product will ruin your name. No one cares when you say "warranty has nothing to do with me". You sold it. You are accountable to your customers . Pass the buck is a game that'll put you outta business if a flagship products reputation goes sour because of poor QC and poor service. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, your married to that shyt.
 
You’re right it should have been taken care of earlier. I don’t believe he is one of my customers which is why I said I had no knowledge of the claim or what was going on...I was just saying how warranty works when a product is discontinued. I also wanted to know the warranty reference number so I could check on it since we are the sole Canadian distributor for BCL now.

Ryan

josh1976 said:
This is for information purposes too; (having been jerked around myself) and in business;

Everything you said is correct, but you missed the part where a reputable company recognizes an absolute disaster.

Which is of no fault to the patron, and falls squarely on the sellers shoulders. A good company will cut the shyt and send a new rifle because in ANY business transaction where a product is bought, paid for and delivered, an 8 month delay for warranty is absolutely unreasonable. Unacceptable regardless of excuse.

It's called "Good-will policy", and I've been offered it over the years by suppliers.

When I set up an account with a supplier there is no deal until " Good will policy" is written in the contract. This gives a retailer leverage to lean on the manufacturer/ supplier in these special situations, and send an entire new product with no delay, or refund in full if a serious QC issue arises . The customer should never be caught in the middle of these disconnects between a retailer and a manufacturer. This disconnect is exactly why the OP is getting screwed over, and it's simply bad business.

If your a retailer, Always negotiate good will policy with the manufacturer, or tell them to shove their product. ESPECIALLY if it is a new product on the market. #1: so the retailer doesn't look like an azz being the middle man who sold the product yet has no control. #2: so the retailer has power to make a warranty decision in house and know his supplier MUST back him thru contract.

If you don't do business this way, a bad product will ruin your name. No one cares when you say "warranty has nothing to do with me". You sold it. You are accountable to your customers . Pass the buck is a game that'll put you outta business if a flagship products reputation goes sour because of poor QC and poor service. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, your married to that shyt.
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