Magnetospeed changing barrel harmonics

Sniffer

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What is everyones thoughts regarding the Magnetospeed?

Obviously its attached to the barrel and that could (in theory at least) affect the harmonics, so is it better to work through the various charge weights without it fitted and then chronograph whichever loads show promise to gauge velocity?

I also like the idea of using it as a method to gauge over pressure when getting near the upper limits of a load but from what I've read there are other signs to look out for anyways (difficult extraction, flattened primers etc)

Thoughts?
 
I use it while I'm working up loads , seems to work good for me - no change in POI or different groups once removed etc.

I've used it on heavy bbls and sport ers alike , never noticed a problem
 
Been using it for a couple of years.....this is my own experience.....others may tell you different......but ...to each there own and I mean no disrespect to anyone out there .....
For the calibres I shoot ...hunting or target shooting I have not seen a shift in point of impact.....I use different types of bullets and yes yes yes there is a different point of impact.....
I really like my magneto speed .....I run the app....and get my data or dope.....I run it throu isnipe.... and it’s bang on ....I’ve even verified it at different distances......last fall 6pt buck came out 317 meters away ...it was a one shot kill with my bar in 25-06...
Eh to each there own ...buy what you can afford ...have fun ...and enjoy the learning curve ......ask to use one with someone in your neck of the woods
Be safe and have fun ...cheers
 
Personally I saved up and bought the LabRadar to eliminate the second step of checking velocity after checking accuracy. I wanted accurate velocity readings while still being able to see the accuracy of the loads I was testing. While some will disagree, for me the thought of anything hanging off the end of my barrel was not an option when doing any load testing. I'm not saying that my way is the only way or the best way, but it is just that - my way.

My two cents...
 
I spoke with an RCMP who is a member at our range, he is also an instructor for the E.R.T. And their snipers......... if they are called snipers. Either way I saw him using the magneto speed on 5 or 6 rifles he had brought one day and I asked him the same question and harmonics and changing the P.O.I. He also stated that he hasn’t noticed any change out to 200 yards. I was contemplating buying the Labrador for the fact that you don’t have to remove it from one gun and attach it to another like the magneto speed. Aside from that I would be comfortable shooting groups and collecting velocities at the same time with it.
 
Velocity info is so important to load development, it's kinda backwards to check it after the fact. Labradar for the win
 
The nice thing about the magneto speed is that it's HANDY.

I use one to check velocities when I'm working up accuracy loads.

Depending on how each individual develops their load they're excellent for a couple of the most important things.

Velocity will give you something to base trajectory tables on for each load.

Velocity should give you a decent idea of pressures being developed by your loads.

Depending on the propellant being used velocity "used to be" a great indicator of pressure. Not so much anymore. Some of the new extreme and special purpose powders don't develop the same pressure spikes because they work differently than their predecessors. Their burn rates have been regulated so the curves are longer, which develops less pressure but can give much faster velocities.

Ganderite likely has a simple layman's description of this.

I am a slave to my powders on hand. I likely have enough to last the rest of my shooting days, so I'm not purchasing more. The thing is, some of the new offerings are EXCELLENT and give super consistent performance over wide temperature ranges, without pressure spikes or low pressures. Especially in the small and medium cartridge cases.

All of my rifles shoot to a different point of impact with a magnetospeed strapped on. Maybe not so much with a bull barrel but with normal hunting configurations I get shot dispersion. That means I don't look for accuracy when I'm checking velocities. IMHO, I should already be very close to my accuracy load recipe when I start checking for velocities to establish trajectories.

Of course, you should always be checking your cartridges for other pressure signs as you progress with your load development. Some rifles with sloppy chambers will develop higher than safe pressures long before a tight chambered rifle. Bullet seating depth and load density have huge influences as well on pressure.

As far as which type of chronograph is best. It's up to each individual and that individual's needs.
 
Ive tried it on 2 rifles ad a shotgun so far. First rifle was a m70 fwt. Changed poi by a lot. Second rifle was a tikka with a #5 contour 26" barrel also changed impact. Shotgun was a pump slug gun again impact shift.
 
I see a POI shift on my rifles with the MS. It was only a few mil on the 700P but on the 760 .30-06 it was off paper at 100 where it is zero'd 3" high. When I'm not on paper I'll use the outside edges of the target and fire 1 rd each at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock to find where I'm at without resetting to a closer range. With the 06 my 6 o'clock rd clipped the 12 o'clock edge of a Red Star triple 3 target. Taking the MS off it went back to its 3" high zero at 100. Another thing I tried, albeit only once, was shooting .2 gr steps around a node in the 700P both with and without the MS attached. I found groups lined up with each other aside from a higher POI with MS attached. This, of course, was 1 test with 1 rifle and 1 set of loads so it does not form a rule. I haven't tried during .1 gr tuning and this was a factory bbl not a match tube so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Hmm, I`m definitely leaning towards carrying out the load tests with the Magnetospeed removed based on everyones findings

I do wonder if its worth making an extra round or two purely for chronograph purposes then remove it before firing the string? That way you can have the comfort blanket of knowing the velocity/pressure and no worries that it will affect the test/harmonics
 
For me it'd be a purely velocity testing tool. I'd rather use a separate chronograph and know for a fact that it's not affecting barrel harmonics and group size.
 
At 200m, I see about 1.5 to 2.0 MOA change in impact, generally high. This is with heavy profiled barrels.
I use the magnetospeed on promising groups at 200m to get velocity and SD.
From there can build predicted elevation and wind tables.

Much more convenient than the older shooting chrony, which have sat unused in the basement for years now.
 
Another option that is cheaper than the MS is the 'Two-Box' chrono from a fellow Canadian. For $300 US, you get a chronograph with a massive area that will detect a bullet, and no barrel harmonics. It detects the sonic crack of the bullet, so nothing under 1250fps will trigger it. With that as well, no light issues like other optical units. I've got a Labradar, Two-Box, Shooting Chrony, Caldwell and an Oehler 35P. I like the Labradar but it doesn't pick up shots over 3900 and some of the varmint rounds I play with are above that. The Two-Box doesn't do 'math', so no SD, AVG, MIN/MAX but it can save 500 shots into memory. I've never had it miss a shot.
 
Hmm, I`m definitely leaning towards carrying out the load tests with the Magnetospeed removed based on everyones findings

I do wonder if its worth making an extra round or two purely for chronograph purposes then remove it before firing the string? That way you can have the comfort blanket of knowing the velocity/pressure and no worries that it will affect the test/harmonics

If you are working within published data, just tune your load on target at 200 and 300yds. When you find the best load wrt to vertical, group size and consistency... send a few rds over the MS and call it done.

I appreciate that the current trend is to obsess about numbers on a LCD screen but this is shooting, and we score the TARGET.

not the phone....

Jerry
 
Hmm, I`m definitely leaning towards carrying out the load tests with the Magnetospeed removed based on everyones findings

I do wonder if its worth making an extra round or two purely for chronograph purposes then remove it before firing the string? That way you can have the comfort blanket of knowing the velocity/pressure and no worries that it will affect the test/harmonics


Sniffer, I am not a fan of firing "strings" from light contour hunting weight rifles. IMHO it's counterproductive and wasteful. When you hunt, you don't shoot at your animal with a barrel that's warm or hot from shooting strings. Your first and often only meaningful shot is made from a COLD barrel, which hopefully has been sighted in previously and appropriately fouled in a similar condition.

Heavy barrel match rifles are treated a bit differently but even then, their shooters will try not to get them HOT.

All I'm saying, is to shoot your rifles accordingly.

I cringe when I'm at the range and a nimrod is blasting rounds downrange and adjusting his scope after the obligatory "five shot string." The last fellow I watched do this proudly made the claim "After 20 shots she finally settled down."

I politely asked if he had any more ammo. I noticed he was shooting off the shelf Federal. Surprisingly, he did have more ammo and it was from the same lot. Good.

I kept him talking for about a half hour for two reasons. First, he was a decent fellow with a decent hunting ethic and I really wanted to see how well his Savage 308 Win, bolt action would shoot from a cold barrel.


I likely don't have to tell anyone with experience what happened. 10cm left and 8cm low of point of aim on the first shot from a cold barrel. The shooter was justly surprised. He had no knowledge about temperature causing harmonics changes to the barrel or any of the other issues created in bedding, stock movement etc as the temps rose, then settled back to normal when they cooled.

This fellow was no one's fool. He recognized a problem when he saw it and endeavored to rectify it for the conditions he hunts.

His bore had close to thirty rounds fired since the last cleaning. Out came the can of Wipe Out (another epiphany) and my portable cleaning rest/rod etc. After cleaning, we shot two foulers and waited for 15 minutes to allow things to cool to normal. He used my bags and adjustable rests because they were more stable and convenient than the range provided bags. Two more shots to establish there was a viable group.

Then we adjusted the scope reticles to point of impact from point of aim.

The barrel was allowed to cool to ambient temperature again, then two more quick shots to make sure it was shooting to point of aim. It took one more adjustment for elevation to get it where he wanted it.

We went to lunch at a local restaurant, chatted about shooting/hunting/SXS quads and favorite cartridges. Great morning all around. After lunch we went back to the range, only about a klik away to shoot the rifle one more time.

He shot it ONCE, as should happen with a successful shot on a hunt. His shot was 3cm high and appx 1cm to the right from point of aim. He admitted it was likely his fault. We packed up our stuff and went home.

The next day I could hear shots coming from the range. Not shot strings. Just single shots with 5-10 minutes between them.

It was my new acquaintance. He wanted to make sure what had happened the day before was consistently repeatable with his rifle/scope/ammo combination and find out how many shots could be fired before his point of impact shifted. Like I said, good ethics.

I know this because he dropped by to show me his targets. He had about a dozen of them. All were covered with notes in a folder. He had picked up a can of Wipe Out and cleaned the rifle again, then shot a couple of foulers before putting it away. He was very pleased with his results but when he picked up the Wipe Out, he picked up more ammo. He opted for Federal Premium, which was different from what he had been shooting and 15 grains heavier but twice as expensive. Of course he had to go back and shoot to check point of impact from point of aim and adjust accordingly. Thankfully they were pretty close.

Again, he came back to discuss his targets. That's when I informed him he could have gotten into a very decent hand loading set up for what he paid for five boxes of Federal Premium ammo. He likes to shoot a lot, which is a good thing. We're putting together a single stage press/scale/dies system together for him now. Almost have it all together. Then comes another learning curve.

Back to the magneto speed and other chronies. They use different methods to establish velocities. I was amazed at how close LabRadar and the Magneto Speed were in their readouts. The older Chrony was OK for what it was designed to do and if nothing else was available I wouldn't feel let down.

For me, LabRadar was just to expensive and to specialized for my needs or desires but an excellent product that lived up to everything claimed. The Chrony was to inconsistent and light dependent but OK. The Magneto Speed, comes in a couple of different models. One for those that love gadgets and one for those that want something simple but works well. I have the latter. I like it and I'm willing to work within its parameters.
 
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