Winchester Model 12 Information Thread

[tharkhold]

They are not going to get any cheaper either from what I have seen on the EE since joining here. This may shock you but I don't own a sample of either unfortunately and don't even remember having a chance to buy either over the years here
Cheers

I might be selling my Mod/28" normal model 12 if I can get the HD w/ a mod choke

All I need is a heavy duck mod barrel

 

[3macs1]

That model 12 16 bore has a 30" barrel. A very rare configured 16 gauge model 12. Having said that it would take a real model 12 guy to appreciate that barrel length and there are not many of us left. I have the following experience with model 12 16 bores, early guns require mods or short shells to run right. Most later guns (all I have owned) have ejection issues with 99% of current factory hulls. Some Remington game loads run OK. Forget any of the Euro hulls they are just too long. I love the Model 12 16 gauge but they are mostly a hassle if you are a shooter more than a collector. I know short shells are available and you can reload but that again is too much trouble for me. Of course you can smith the gun to work but that is some trouble I don't need also. Now I know someone will be along saying his model 16 bore he got from Uncle Joe in 1960 runs everything without a hiccup. Great you have a very rare individual gun that does that.

Darryl

Agree 100%. I am that rare dude however since I still only reload 16ga AA design and Activ so all is still good
I paid dearly for the 16ga activ but landed a fair amount in 16ga and if interested in 100 new hulls with wads I can help a friend like you out send me a PM
There was quite a few 16ga ACTIV wads in that container I bought
Let me know
Joe

 

[madtrapper143]

Thanks Joe that is a kind offer. Currently I have 7 16 bore shotguns but not one is a Model 12. Like I said I love the feel of the 16 frame model 12 but after owning 3 and having issues with every one I just gave up. It is just too easy to feed everything from Fiocchi to Kent to WW Dove and Quail loads through the ones I have without a hitch. My new favourite 16 is a vent ribbed Sportsman 58 with a 28" Mod choke. It sits beside the 1100. Sorry to get off topic by mentioning the "R" word.

Darryl

 

[tharkhold]

So, I've fired 12g and 20g... what's the appeal of the 16ga? (Legit ask, I want to know the secret! )

 

[Winchested]

The HD I picked up was orig a 30". Was cut back a couple inches and had standard winchokes (invector) threaded in. Also had a rib added.

 

[tharkhold]

The HD I picked up was orig a 30". Was cut back a couple inches and had standard winchokes (invector) threaded in. Also had a rib added.

So is that 'good' or 'bad'?

 

[Falconflyer]

So, I've fired 12g and 20g... what's the appeal of the 16ga? (Legit ask, I want to know the secret! )

Many consider the 16 to be the perfect gauge. A one oz load is as long as it is wide so it's what they call a 'square ' load and should produce the best pattern possible. Compare that to a long thin 1 oz load in a 20 gauge and there is much less stringing of the shot. A 1 oz load which usually is shorter than it is wide in a 12 gauge can produce patterns with holes in them, I say 'can' but there are many good 1 oz 12 gauge loads out there. For the most part we're splitting hairs here.
The demise of the 16 gauge is generally blamed on the US skeet shooters who, when drawing up the rules for the game, named the 12, 20, 28 and 410 as the gauges to be used and left out the 16. Even the ammo companies poured money into R & D for the skeet gauges but left the 16 to languish with old technology hulls, wads, etc. And trap has always been a 12 gauge game for whatever reason. The advent of steel shot further sealed the fate of the 16 gauge as it doesn't have the capacity to hold bulkier steel shot so it's mostly used only for upland bird hunting these days. The nice thing is that a lot of the Italian and Spanish gun makers are still making new guns chambered for 16 gauge and a lot of them are built on scaled actions that are very nice and the 16 is alive and well in the UK and EU but not so much in North America.

 

[madtrapper143]

When I was a kid a lot of our neighbour farmers only had one shotgun. A quite few were Cooey single shot in 16 gauge. Talking to the old timers who had them about the choice in gauge the answer was that "shells are cheaper" than 12 gauge. That is not true anymore but it was the main reason for choosing a 16 or 12 in the '50's and '60's in my old stomping grounds of southern Ontario farm land. For me the 16 has the nostalgia and cool factor the others don't. I do believe, all ballistic argument aside, that it is THE gauge choice for all upland hunting.

Darryl

 

[tharkhold]

Many consider the 16 to be the perfect gauge. A one oz load is as long as it is wide so it's what they call a 'square ' load and should produce the best pattern possible. Compare that to a long thin 1 oz load in a 20 gauge and there is much less stringing of the shot. A 1 oz load which usually is shorter than it is wide in a 12 gauge can produce patterns with holes in them, I say 'can' but there are many good 1 oz 12 gauge loads out there. For the most part we're splitting hairs here.
The demise of the 16 gauge is generally blamed on the US skeet shooters who, when drawing up the rules for the game, named the 12, 20, 28 and 410 as the gauges to be used and left out the 16. Even the ammo companies poured money into R & D for the skeet gauges but left the 16 to languish with old technology hulls, wads, etc. And trap has always been a 12 gauge game for whatever reason. The advent of steel shot further sealed the fate of the 16 gauge as it doesn't have the capacity to hold bulkier steel shot so it's mostly used only for upland bird hunting these days. The nice thing is that a lot of the Italian and Spanish gun makers are still making new guns chambered for 16 gauge and a lot of them are built on scaled actions that are very nice and the 16 is alive and well in the UK and EU but not so much in North America.

Oh, thanks for all that

 

[3macs1]

Many consider the 16 to be the perfect gauge. A one oz load is as long as it is wide so it's what they call a 'square ' load and should produce the best pattern possible. Compare that to a long thin 1 oz load in a 20 gauge and there is much less stringing of the shot. A 1 oz load which usually is shorter than it is wide in a 12 gauge can produce patterns with holes in them, I say 'can' but there are many good 1 oz 12 gauge loads out there. For the most part we're splitting hairs here.
The demise of the 16 gauge is generally blamed on the US skeet shooters who, when drawing up the rules for the game, named the 12, 20, 28 and 410 as the gauges to be used and left out the 16. Even the ammo companies poured money into R & D for the skeet gauges but left the 16 to languish with old technology hulls, wads, etc. And trap has always been a 12 gauge game for whatever reason. The advent of steel shot further sealed the fate of the 16 gauge as it doesn't have the capacity to hold bulkier steel shot so it's mostly used only for upland bird hunting these days. The nice thing is that a lot of the Italian and Spanish gun makers are still making new guns chambered for 16 gauge and a lot of them are built on scaled actions that are very nice and the 16 is alive and well in the UK and EU but not so much in North America.

Well said. I will be honest I was shocked when remington reintroduced the 1100 and 870 in 16ga with choke tubes and browning a bps upland and white lightening
They must have sold since they were hard to find to buy up here
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Thanks Joe that is a kind offer. Currently I have 7 16 bore shotguns but not one is a Model 12. Like I said I love the feel of the 16 frame model 12 but after owning 3 and having issues with every one I just gave up. It is just too easy to feed everything from Fiocchi to Kent to WW Dove and Quail loads through the ones I have without a hitch. My new favourite 16 is a vent ribbed Sportsman 58 with a 28" Mod choke. It sits beside the 1100. Sorry to get off topic by mentioning the "R" word.

Darryl

Understand. I kept just one 16ga model 12 to keep the model 12 set complete but I never fire it now
Cheers

 

[dilly]

So, I've fired 12g and 20g... what's the appeal of the 16ga? (Legit ask, I want to know the secret! )

The old cliche “carries like a 20 and hits like a 12” rings true for me. I find the 16 with a 26” barrel and the right LOP on the stock seems to fit me as good as any gun I have ever shot. I can hit birds with it like no other. I configured mine with Briley tubes and it is my go-to upland gun now.
I am aware of some having hiccups during ejection with shells that are a bit long (Federal), but I don’t get those issues with this one. I tend to work the action with a sharp stroke and that may help. They don’t like to be short shucked.

 

[tharkhold]

The old cliche “carries like a 20 and hits like a 12” rings true for me. I find the 16 with a 26” barrel and the right LOP on the stock seems to fit me as good as any gun I have ever shot. I can hit birds with it like no other. I configured mine with Briley tubes and it is my go-to upland gun now.
I am aware of some having hiccups during ejection with shells that are a bit long (Federal), but I don’t get those issues with this one. I tend to work the action with a sharp stroke and that may help. They don’t like to be short shucked.

Aye, thanks.

Ideally I'd like one model 12 for duck hunting... I do like black cloud though, and I dont think they make it in anything else but 12/20g

 

[dilly]

Aye, thanks.

Ideally I'd like one model 12 for duck hunting... I do like black cloud though, and I dont think they make it in anything else but 12/20g

If I were you, I'd just get one opened to mod or have tubes installed. I wouldn't cut a barrel though, nor would I modify a "high condition" heavy duck.

 

[Johnny G1]

A question for mod 12 , 20 gauge with poly choke in excellent shape, 100 yrs old, built 1918, What is it worth, unfired since late 70s. Thanks.

 

[the spank]

Did you guy’s know some of these model 12’s are “takedown” models, some are “slamfire” models and the really rare ones are both? Honest injun!! I’ve seen it in the EE several times so it must be true?!!

 

[dilly]

Did you guy’s know some of these model 12’s are “takedown” models, some are “slamfire” models and the really rare ones are both? Honest injun!! I’ve seen it in the EE several times so it must be true?!!

That drives me nuts too...

 

[dilly]

A question for mod 12 , 20 gauge with poly choke in excellent shape, 100 yrs old, built 1918, What is it worth, unfired since late 70s. Thanks.

Impossible to say with certainty without pictures. Poly tends to detract from value among the masses but 20ga would maybe increase value to cancel it out. A ball park guess...$450-$600.

 

[3macs1]

A question for mod 12 , 20 gauge with poly choke in excellent shape, 100 yrs old, built 1918, What is it worth, unfired since late 70s. Thanks.

It is important to determine if the poly was a factory install or not makes a difference on value.
Is the barrel stamped with a choke restriction
Cheers

 

[the spank]

Impossible to say with certainty without pictures. Poly tends to detract from value among the masses but 20ga would maybe increase value to cancel it out. A ball park guess...$450-$600.

I do believe back in the day one could order a model 12 with factory installed poly choke though I don’t know which gauges or in what years that was available or how to tell a factory install from a gunsmith or poly choke install? Typically they tend to reduce the value overall though. They sure are an ungodly view to look down a barrel upon from behind the reciever.