Liberal Handgun Ban?

LexInfidelis said:
The few sustained and reasoned arguments in this thread have been successively drowned out by pessimistic and cathartic ramblings. Though I agree with your point whole heartedly, there isn't much substance to the argumentative equivalent of curling up in the fetal position.
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You're absolutely right.
The worst thing we can do is become divided.
I have a couple coworkers that don't care about the issues we are facing. They are hunters and occasional plinkers. A handgun / "assault weapon" ban, they say "doesn't affect them". Sad.
 
LexInfidelis said:
Suggesting that people vote for Bernier in a manner that implies he has a better chance than Scheer is as laughable as it is disingenuous. You're effectively telling people to throw their vote away based on a personal bias. Kind of lame.
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No, we're telling people to vote for their convictions rather than "against" someone.
 
Volhv said:
You're absolutely right.
The worst thing we can do is become divided.
I have a couple coworkers that don't care about the issues we are facing. They are hunters and occasional plinkers. A handgun / "assault weapon" ban, they say "doesn't affect them". Sad.
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My point exactly, though my opinion is probably the dividing one, The firearm argument alone is not enough to convince people. A few trip to the friendly care-bears range where we all love each other will not change that.
 
essorx said:
My point exactly, though my opinion is probably the dividing one, The firearm argument alone is not enough to convince people. A few trip to the friendly care-bears range where we all love each other will not change that.
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The human eye and brain loves flow charts. Show the public actual statistics, unbiased ones representing actual gun statistics, illegally obtained vs legally obtained, for violent crimes in this country. I've seen great ones on this forum over the past couple of months. We just need to put a couple of large ads on multimedia platforms.
The enemy of the Canadian gun owner (and population the world over at large these days) is fake news. It's an illogical term for a very real and powerful thing. It used to be called wagging the dog. It's used by every political and economic party these days to varying degrees. Time to put out our own. Information vs misinformation.
 
essorx said:
No, we're telling people to vote for their convictions rather than "against" someone.
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Bernier knows that he's taking a huge risk but it had to done. If there was any real chance of Scheer winning in 2019 it wouldn't has been as justified...
 
Canadian brother said:
How about eff the liberals And all the gun grabbers and we vote the balshavicks out next election :) let's make it easy and vote for sheer in 2019.
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Or how about this? All two million plus gun owners get behind Maxime Bernier for the 2019 election. If that isn't enough to topple the Turd then we push Bernier and Scheer to form a coalition? If that still isn't enough to dump Turdeau then this country is too far gone to even worry about it any more...
 
bigplinker said:
Show the public actual statistics, unbiased ones representing actual gun statistics, illegally obtained vs legally obtained, for violent crimes in this country. I've seen great ones on this forum over the past couple of months. We just need to put a couple of large ads on multimedia platforms.
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I've been pushing these statistics this over the past ~10 years on multiple societal subjects (from free speech to environment), without success. You are not going to break "implicit bias" with logic. Only the arguments of the emerging "intellectual dark web" over the past year or two have been having an effect so far. These are on the cultural and moral level and carefully avoid logical / statistical arguments.

bigplinker said:
The enemy of the Canadian gun owner (and population the world over at large these days) is fake news. It's an illogical term for a very real and powerful thing. It used to be called wagging the dog. It's used by every political and economic party these days to varying degrees. Time to put out our own. Information vs misinformation.
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Agreed, in principle, but not in practice.
 
Autolite said:
Or how about this? All two million plus gun owners get behind Maxime Bernier for the 2019 election. If that isn't enough to topple the Turd then we push Bernier and Scheer to form a coalition? If that still isn't enough to dump Turdeau then this country is too far gone to even worry about it any more...
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Agreed. Though, I'm afraid we're already too far gone.
 
essorx said:
Agreed. Though, I'm afraid we're already too far gone.
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Indeed that might very well be the case. That's what Bernier's 'experiment' is going to tell us. I really do understand why so many people are upset with Bernier for splitting the vote. But that isn't anything that a coalition government won't fix.

Bernier forming a new party is going to show us how many true Conservatives there might still be in this country. If Bernier cannot form a viable or competitive party, I am most certain that both Bernier and Scheer would be a willing to form a coalition if that's what it would take to topple the Turd. As gun owners, Bernier is our only voice in the federal government. We stand to lose nothing by supporting him now...
 
I'm way more then a "true" conservative but I won't vote that way, Alberta got screwed by a vote split.

Autolite said:
Indeed that might very well be the case. That's what Bernier's 'experiment' is going to tell us. I really do understand why so many people are upset with Bernier for splitting the vote. But that isn't anything that a coalition government won't fix.

Bernier forming a new party is going to show us how many true Conservatives there might still be in this country. If Bernier cannot form a viable or competitive party, I am most certain that both Bernier and Scheer would be a willing to form a coalition if that's what it would take to topple the Turd. As gun owners, Bernier is our only voice in the federal government. We stand to lose nothing by supporting him now...
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Fortress said:
I'm way more then a "true" conservative but I won't vote that way, Alberta got screwed by a vote split.
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True, but that was a different scenario. Alberta first split the Conservative vote which then gave the underdog NDP their victory after the fact. It was a very stupid move which I am certain Albertans will never do again.

In federal politics, Turdeau won a majority government when the Conservatives were still one united party and the polls indicated that he would still win a majority government just before Bernier bailed if an election were held. I hate the fact that Bernier split the vote but it's the only way that we are going to find out what sort of political power true Conservatives still have.

In this scenario, splitting the vote can be reversed if Bernier and Scheer decide to form a coalition. Something that I'm certain they would both be willing to do if that is what it would take to defeat Turdeau. The worst case scenario is Turdeau forming another majority government which is what the polls were saying would have happened anyway even if Bernier had stayed with Scheer.

We are only truly screwed if either Bernier or Scheer claim that a coalition is out of the question and I really can't see that happening...
 
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Autolite said:
We are only truly screwed if either Bernier or Scheer claim that a coalition is out of the question and I really can't see that happening...
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The only way this is going to happen is if Sheer decide to gather on his right wing. Bernier shall *not* compromise on his left.
 
My range doesn’t allow guests. Makes it impossible to get friends into restricted. All they know is they’re illegal to use anywhere but a range, and my range won’t allow it. Seems like a pain in the ass because it is. Why the range won’t let up? Is beyond me. I understand the concept of liability. But everyone that brings a firearm is a liability.
 
Autolite said:
Indeed that might very well be the case. That's what Bernier's 'experiment' is going to tell us. I really do understand why so many people are upset with Bernier for splitting the vote. But that isn't anything that a coalition government won't fix.

Bernier forming a new party is going to show us how many true Conservatives there might still be in this country. If Bernier cannot form a viable or competitive party, I am most certain that both Bernier and Scheer would be a willing to form a coalition if that's what it would take to topple the Turd. As gun owners, Bernier is our only voice in the federal government. We stand to lose nothing by supporting him now...
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Thats not how splitting the vote works though.

Its riding by riding. So your Conservative candidate will be up against your Bernier candidate, which will split the conservative vote in that riding, and allow a Liberal or NDP candidate who otherwise may not have had a chance in that riding to win. Jagmeet Singh is not popular, and many NDP votes in the past will go Liberal, despite how bad Trudeau is.

Conservatives consistently pull out around 40% support when they win elections... that will not translate into 20% Scheer 20% Bernier. Riding by riding more Liberal and NDP candidates will win in places they havent in decades.

And we will lose our handguns.
 
Paul_1982 said:
Conservatives consistently pull out around 40% support when they win elections... that will not translate into 20% Scheer 20% Bernier. Riding by riding more Liberal and NDP candidates will win in places they havent in decades.
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If Sheer don't want this to happen, he will have to steer right, his choice.

No compromise.
 
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