question for pistol cal fans...

Claven2

Claven2

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I've kind of lost track of all the options out there right now, so was hoping for some feedback. If I want to buy a reliable and reasonably well made 9mm non-restricted semi-auto rifle for walking around the back 40, shooting porcupines, plinking, etc. - what are my current options? Also, what's thought to currently be the best value for money? I don't care if it's limited to 5 rds or 10 - it won't matter for what I want to use it for.

My wish list:

- Barrel not to exceed 18.6" in length, I don't care if the muzzle is threaded or not - I just want it to be NR and reasonably compact.
- Ideally the rifle will be able to easily mount a small 1X red dot like an aimpoint micro-T1 or similar optic without a ridiculously high mount like you would use on an AR.
- Ideally it would be made out of weather-resistant materials and not need a long break-in period before becoming reliable or excessive amounts of lube to run well.
- Ideally it can be carried safely with a closed bolt and a chambered round.
- Field strippable without tools
- No cosmetic flash suppressor-looking things that add needless weight for looks, if avoidable.

So what are the present options?
 
Ruger PC carbine takedown
I have owned both the restricted and non restricted model. Takes Glock Mags so 10 rounds.
Easy to clean and takedown. Has functioned 100%
 
I've had a few different 9mm carbines, but the most reliable one by far has been the Beretta Storm. Had a couple, always 100% functioning, easy maintenance. You can the mount a red dot sight really low if you wish, but the iron sight "towers" might or might not bother you, probably based upon whether you close one eye while shooting or not. For correct both-eyes-open shooting, the Storm is in a class by itself.

I must admit that the PC9, despite being one of the ugliest guns I've ever seen, is getting me interested as well. :)
 
Off the top of my head:

CX4 storm: most reliable, and most functional, not the most pretty.

Sub 2000 gen 2: most compact (18.5" folded) and very reliable

Fx-9 Carbine: new, and has some break in issues but seems alright based on what I have read

NR Scorpion Evo: some are coming from factory in the near future for around a grand, limited to 5rd mags

Hi point carbine: some NR ones are finally coming in at around $450, known to be reliable but hard to disassemble and reassemble for cleaning

JR carbine: reliable

Thureon defense: reliable

Jard J68: bullpup! but ugly as all hell

TNW Aero carbine: heard both reliable and unreliable reports

Tavor 9mm: pricey, and limited to 5rd mags.

Umm anything else I am missing that is NR?

I wish there were some more options for 9mm bullpups...

I really liked my sub2k, will be getting another. I had a cx4 and loved it as well, it is not as compact, but has excellent ergonomics and is a brilliant design. I would go with the sub 2k if it were me. I would love to see a bolt action 9mm hit the market at some point for a fun plinker.
 
I just googled the pc9 - omg its ugly! Looks like a black nylon 66!

The storm seems ok, but as I remember, they don't come from the factory in NR form - has that changed?

I didn't know the hi-point was available nr. If they are reliable for a $450 beater, might be a decent choice I can leave at the cabin?? Who is selling those?

Sub2k looks cool - are they solid, or flimsy like the gen1 guns felt? I remember thinking they were no better than the hi-point, despite twice the cost.
 
Ruger PCC is everything your looking for and I think the cheapest option if buying brand new. You can adjust the stock lenght, customize the mag release and bolt handle to whatever side you want, Glock mags, easy take down and can strip with an Allen key, easy to mount a sight and a light, super reliable with oem Glock mags, pmags, or Ruger mags.

Watch some YouTube videos. It's a winner.
 
Sub2k looks cool - are they solid,
Click to expand...

There's lots of plastic.
But I could say the same about any Glock pistol.

My Sub-2000 has been a great gun.

I wouldn't say it's as good as my AR-9 rifle.
But that gun cost quite a bit more, and it's restricted.
 
Claven2 said:
I just googled the pc9 - omg its ugly! Looks like a black nylon 66!

The storm seems ok, but as I remember, they don't come from the factory in NR form - has that changed?

I didn't know the hi-point was available nr. If they are reliable for a $450 beater, might be a decent choice I can leave at the cabin?? Who is selling those?

Sub2k looks cool - are they solid, or flimsy like the gen1 guns felt? I remember thinking they were no better than the hi-point, despite twice the cost.
Click to expand...

Yes you can get the CX4 storm in factory non restricted now. However... the barrel is thin and looks a bit odd. You're looking at about $1100 for one. Which is a lot cheaper than the retrofit route that many of us went. Mine has a bull barrel but was a retrofit.

The Storm offers everything you've asked for. It's far better than "ok". Due to it's pistol based design it's more compact that most of the other options, which is really noticeable in non restricted form. The Storm looks decent non restricted. Many of the other options don't. Also one pin and it comes apart in two roughly equal sections. Easy for storage and cleaning. Extremely reliable. Is it perfect? No. The trigger isn't great without mods. The rabbit ear iron sights make matching an optic a bit more challenging although any micro red dot will work well. The safety is a Remington 870 style push button as these were designed to compliment police cars and they figured the familiar safety was a good idea. I prefer an AR style myself. I actually don't mind the looks.

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There are two other options I would also consider. The CZ Scorpion. I have a restricted which I really like. However the non restricted will be a lot longer. It's not bad looking but it's essentially the same sort of size as an AR. Right now there are some companies doing deposits for a pre order on them. I'm debating it. In restricted form the CZ is pretty cool. I'm just not so sure it will be as cool in non restricted.

362fd4a.jpg



I would also take a look at the FX-9. It's basically a non restricted AR. I like the looks of it. The only concern is reliability. There have been some issues from what I have read. Otherwise it's nice looking and will feel like an AR which is a good thing.

They are $1100 so right in the same price range.

With regards to the hi- point. I also looked at those a lot. Weird looking but kind of liked it. But... clearly not as nicely built as the Storm. Really the price difference isn't substantial enough to not go a bit higher and get a better made product. I think you'd be happier with the nicer firearm for the long haul rather than the el cheapo. Every now and then you get a gun that's priced bargain basement but equals the higher level ones. Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be the case with this one. It appears you get what you pay for. I looked hard to see if this was one of those diamonds in the rough. I've ended up passing every time. Also personally I would avoid the Kel-Tec. Innovative firearms, their higher priced stuff is built decent but not up to the level of the really good stuff. In the case of their more cost effective offerings, they will feel cheap.

Yet another option is the Kriss Vector. An option I've looked at numerous times. Can be found for $1500 non restricted in the EE. Was close to going for a gen2 in Alpine white. But... after putting in the time researching it, I always end up passing on them.

Ultimately the CX4 Storm does everything you've asking for and does it well. It's not the newest toy but it's tried/true and decent. There are pros/cons to all of these options. Just some food for thought.
 
One of the ones I had and never warmed up to was the Kriss. I always thought it was very cool and exotic looking, and reading about its innovative design made me want one even more. What a huge disappointment! If it had been spitting out .223cal bullets I would have been in love...but getting 9mm performance out of something that big, long, heavy and generally unwieldy was a major letdown. It's one of those guns you hope your buddy buys so you can play with it periodically, but you sure don't want one yourself.

Otherwise I think E7 has nailed down the pros and cons beautifully. Epoxy, is your NR Beretta an aftermarket conversion? I have one that is (done by Epps many years ago), and mine has a slightly heavier barrel profile than the original, but yours is even beefier. Looks good. And thanks for the perspective on the HiPoint. Frontier Firearms is supposed to be getting them (NR) in February, and I have my name on their list...but every time I fire the Beretta I wonder what on earth I need the HiPoint for?

Oh, by the way Claven...the PC9 is not as ugly as a Nylon 66! I sort of like the 66, in fact I have ever since I was a youngster reading the Remington ads for it. No, the PC9 is much worse than that...it's actually as ugly as the old Rem Viper! Anyone who can remember that POS knows how bad that is. :)
 
driller212 said:
Off the top of my head:

Umm anything else I am missing that is NR?

I wish there were some more options for 9mm bullpups...
Click to expand...

Everyone forgets about the Chiappa M1-9!

NR, 10 round Beretta magazines, traditional stock, goes for about $500

hOUl4GK.jpg


-Barrel not to exceed 18.6" in length, I don't care if the muzzle is threaded or not - I just want it to be NR and reasonably compact. (19" barrel)
- Ideally the rifle will be able to easily mount a small 1X red dot like an aimpoint micro-T1 or similar optic without a ridiculously high mount like you would use on an AR. (I think with a low riser you can clear the hand guard, uses a dovetail railing system though)
- Ideally it would be made out of weather-resistant materials and not need a long break-in period before becoming reliable or excessive amounts of lube to run well. (Comes in wood or black polymer, Break in period is pretty rough though)
- Ideally it can be carried safely with a closed bolt and a chambered round. Modern firearms typically have to be drop safe, so yes?
- Field strippable without tools You can clean the barrel without stripping it but to get to the trigger group requires tools
- No cosmetic flash suppressor-looking things that add needless weight for looks, if avoidable. (No)
Click to expand...
 
Claven2 said:
I just googled the pc9 - omg its ugly! Looks like a black nylon 66!

The storm seems ok, but as I remember, they don't come from the factory in NR form - has that changed?

I didn't know the hi-point was available nr. If they are reliable for a $450 beater, might be a decent choice I can leave at the cabin?? Who is selling those?

Sub2k looks cool - are they solid, or flimsy like the gen1 guns felt? I remember thinking they were no better than the hi-point, despite twice the cost.
Click to expand...

The Ruger seems to turn some people off aesthetically so your not alone in that department..... :)
It's a bit of a blend of traditional and modern.
there are already some aftermarket forends and rail options on the market and I imagine there will be more aftermarket stock options coming to market soon due to the popularity of the carbines.

For the Sale price these have been going at recently (less then $800 shipped and taxed) it's by far the best value and they are well made guns that are good to go out of the box.
 
Can-down said:
The Ruger seems to turn some people off aesthetically so your not alone in that department..... :)
It's a bit of a blend of traditional and modern.
there are already some aftermarket forends and rail options on the market and I imagine there will be more aftermarket stock options coming to market soon due to the popularity of the carbines.

For the Sale price these have been going at recently (less then $800 shipped and taxed) it's by far the best value and they are well made guns that are good to go out of the box.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any pc9's under $849 after googling a bit. Reading some reviews, it looks like it performs well despite how horribly ugly it looks.
 
Owned an NR CX4, loved everything about it except for the controls. The CX4 is not designed for an individual with large hands. I could barely fit my hand through the "thumb hole" to use the mag release. Otherwise it was the perfect PCC

Next up the Ruger PCC is almost perfect. The only draw back I see, is you will need tools to conduct a disassembly, Otherwise the one I have shoots great, easy to use, and very compact.
 
I would say for compactness and reliability the CX4 is a great option and can be had in factory NR barrel length. As well it uses factory Beretta mags so you can get pistol mags with no issues.
 
F22_RaptoR said:
I would say for compactness and reliability the CX4 is a great option and can be had in factory NR barrel length. As well it uses factory Beretta mags so you can get pistol mags with no issues.
Click to expand...

I just checked the ee and cgn vendors. The used storms in the ee are as expensive or even more so than new ones at retailers right now. Crazy.

Downside to the storm is beretta mags are about $50 each, while glock mags can be found for $20.
 
Claven2 said:
I've kind of lost track of all the options out there right now, so was hoping for some feedback. If I want to buy a reliable and reasonably well made 9mm non-restricted semi-auto rifle for walking around the back 40, shooting porcupines, plinking, etc. - what are my current options? Also, what's thought to currently be the best value for money? I don't care if it's limited to 5 rds or 10 - it won't matter for what I want to use it for.

My wish list:

- Barrel not to exceed 18.6" in length, I don't care if the muzzle is threaded or not - I just want it to be NR and reasonably compact.
- Ideally the rifle will be able to easily mount a small 1X red dot like an aimpoint micro-T1 or similar optic without a ridiculously high mount like you would use on an AR.
- Ideally it would be made out of weather-resistant materials and not need a long break-in period before becoming reliable or excessive amounts of lube to run well.
- Ideally it can be carried safely with a closed bolt and a chambered round.
- Field strippable without tools
- No cosmetic flash suppressor-looking things that add needless weight for looks, if avoidable.

So what are the present options?
Click to expand...

This one looks promising..........

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-Canadian-Made-Pistol-Carbine-(Non-Restricted!)

OK
 
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