APRA Informal F Class Range Day

Hey Glen,

There are a pile of shooters up here who shoot long range, and some of them have a pile of target/LR specific rifles to boot.

Our range now has a backstop at 1000m; we just need to do some more brush clearing to widen the sight lane.

We currently have 10 or so concrete shooting benches under a covered/powered/lit firing line, with backstops and target holders at 100, 200, 300, 385 and 500, with several others in between.

One of our favorite games is shooting clay pigeons on the 500m backstop, but there are many here who shoot for far more serious groups than that.

Catnthehat is the pres of our club. You should talk to him and myself about getting something going. For the record, we also have pistol bays and a totally enclosed pistol shack with shooting portals on the downrange side, a blackpowder walking trail, dedicated .22 range as well as a biathlon range and track, and a fully automated trap & skeet field. Really an excellent facility up here, with a very active membership and executive.

I'm also planning on getting Service Rifle happening up here!
 
Last edited:
wild1 said:
Ok might have a rifle for it. .223 Not sure yet of twist but I am finding out. I dont reload yet. Gotta be factory ammo. What would you guys suggest for ammo? I imagine it is going to be more critical going out that far. 62 gr cut it in a 1-9 twist? Also is a smaller power scope like 10x going to be ok out there? Sorry for all the questions, just if I am going to go I want to be as prepared as I can be. It is a long drive ya know. Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

For factory ammo, try the Federal Gold Medal Match with the 69gr Sierra Match King at 3000fps.
 
Inspector said:
Terrific. This may turn into a viable shindig afterall. Thanks to all for the support. It's getting late. Still have to roll up a hundred or so to go play with Keith and the Nokomis Boys for 3 days.

Silverado, Ft McMoney seems to have a bunch of shooters lurking in the shadows. This is a bit off topic but, does anyone reading this forum in the northern region of the Province know of a shooting sports friendly person or land holding corporation that would be amenable to long leasing sufficient land, at a nominal cost, to develop a target range? Years ago I was given the ignomious title of APRA Northern Region Range Development Coordinator and after tilting at assorted windmills and chasing many geese, all with disappointing results, I had virtually given up trying to get something going north of Calgary. If any of you kind gentlemen has a contact or knows of a club with suitable area, I have been given APRA permission to submit proposals for enabling funds to equipe a facility in the manner similar to Homestead. A real Target Range with Target equipment and firing points. Not the dirt pile ranges we've all gotten used to. The biggest problem with Long Range is you need long range property. I've gone as for as Grande Prairie with no luck so far. Then again, it may just be that within the community of shooter disciplines, Fullbore and F Class Target Shooting isn't that big a draw.

Anyway, I thank you for your time and please excuse the diversion from the original intent of this thread. It can't hurt to ask and I appreciate any and all help and suggestions.

Goodnight.
Cheers, Glen
Click to expand...
Inspector
We are in the process of building a 1,000 meter range as we speak!hard to get However, as with the rest off the province, everyone is very busy and it's
hard to get help and equipment.
I started late in the spring as the frost was coming out of the ground , so will have to continue as my time permits.

We shoot to 500 meters here, and there are about 10 or 15 Palma match irons rifle in town at the moment, and a SLEW of Fclasss type rifles!:D

maybe we should take this offline and contiue talking abbout getting the range finished?
Cat
 
Silverado, sounds good for the area. Anyway, if you get down to Homestead you'll see what is needed for Fullbore Match shooting. It's a pretty one dimension game and I suppose it has to be as it's remained the same for well over 100 years and fired Internationally. With the exception of F class, which is the new flavor but fired on the same course, at the same targets. Unless it is a pure F class match, wherein most countries have adopted the ICFRA reduced (1/2 Moa V or X) targets.

In our game, the targets and raising/lowering equipment are static at the farthest point on the range, behind was are known as "Butts" (protection for the personnel doing the Marking and Scoring). The Shooters move from one distance to another and as Fullbore is shot prone, they lay on "Firing Points". Usually they are raised mounds (2 or 3 feet) graded a bit from front to back and are usually 12 to 15 feet front to back and wide enough to accomodate the "Paired" shooters for however many target frames you have. Communication between the firing points and the butts, of course, is always done with radios. If this word picture doesn't do it, and it wouldn't surprise me if didn't, I think there are some images on the DCRA website that show what I'm trying to describe. The Targets are in a fixed location, with corresponding number boards visible through the scope or in the case of TR shooters, throught their spotting scopes. Normally the course of fire is 2 convertible sighters and 10 on score at a given distance. After the relays are complete, the shooters pack up and move to the next firing point. If it's flat like Ottawa you walk, if it's hilly like Homestead, you drive.

I'll insert a reply to an interested Gentleman who wondered if we had ever thought of putting a clinic on in the Edmonton area. This is how I replied.
the short answer is yes. The long answer is; it'll never happen. You wouldn't believe the time I've spent trying to make this happen. There is no facility in the Province with target butts, target equipment and the distances required for Fullbore/F Class competition other than the APRA Homestead Shooting Center. We had a close approximation during the 2005 World Masters Games at CFB Edmonton. They have electronic targets and scoring, which worked half assed after a substantial re-programing. Some additional work would be required, computer wise, to make this a viable option. Dealing with the Military is a whole other issue. It would take years to get this organized. This Range, 600m, is what we consider adequate for the short range portion of a match. The long range is 700m, 800m and 900m which can only be done at Homestead.

As a matter of fact, there are only 5 ranges in Western Canada that have the equipment for Fullbore Target shooting. In BC there is Kamloops and Mission which are limited to 300m and CFB Chilliwack "Volkes Ranges" which is a Military 600m facility.
In Alberta there is, of course, Homestead from 300m to 900m and owned by the APRA.
In Sakatchewan there is the North Star range at Nokomis which is 300m to 1000yds and owned by the SPRA.

To effectively run a Fullbore/F Class clinic, it can only be done at a suitably equiped facility. It cannot be duplicated or imitated at any of the local dirt pile ranges availlable. So you see the dilema.

Hope this explains things.


If you make it to the clinic, all will be revealed.

It would be interesting to get up there (provided it's not work related, been there, done that) and have a look and maybe see if it's possible. What I've found so far though, is that most recreational shooters that have a range as you describe really don't like the idea of change.

Cheers, Glen
 
Cat, I'm so damn slow, I was piddling with the message to Silver and missed yours. Besides, I'm working. Well as you see I'll do anything other than finish these stinking Reports. I love my job, I love my job.......... Lets get a telecon on the fly. PM me for contact. Boy this is getting encouraging as hell. The only thing I see is that if guys from edmonton won't drive 3-1/2 hours to Homestead, I sort of doubt they'll journey to Ft McMoney. Which isn't a big deal if the numbers there allow a good local turnout.

Cheers, Glen
 
Glen the SPRA also currently have 1100 and 1200yd mounds. We are flat too, but we still drive :)

APRA Mound and scenery shot
IM004818.jpg




SPRA Mound and scenery shot
500yds-2.jpg


I think both of these shots are at the 500 yds mounds....SPRA for sure, APRA maybe 400 yds...



The butts at SPRA, APRA are similar in design I think
Keiththebutts.jpg




What you see, 300M SPRA
IM003821.jpg



What you see at the 900M at APRA
IM003189.jpg


Picture are worth how many typed or :puke: words... eh Glen :welcome:

BTW, my avatar is the APRA logo...
 
Last edited:
I'll see more next weekend Glen, but from what you're telling me, it sounds like an excellent setup for Service Rifle a la Connaught as well, maybe we can make a go of this after all!
 
Silver, Hometead and Nokomis do it the same as Connaught. Just not 136 targets and 300 shooters. There is a Service Condition club at Homestead too. One month the match is Service condition, the alternating, it's Precision Rifle. Wayne Zylic is the contact listed on the APRA website.

Keith the Homestead shot is at 400. I know you said Nokomis is flat. It ain't. I walked from the 300 all the way back to the clubhouse one time. Penned in the parking jumble and couldn't get the truck out. Forgot my smokes and coffee cup. It's only flat for an old smoker when you get back past 800. Hell, I thought it was uphill both ways! See you Friday.

Cheers, Glen
 
It would be interesting to get up there (provided it's not work related, been there, done that) and have a look and maybe see if it's possible. What I've found so far though, is that most recreational shooters that have a range as you describe really don't like the idea of change.

Cheers, Glen[/QUOTE]
Glen, our range is located in an area of the province that seems to be uphill both ways from Edmonton!:redface:
The IPSC group managed to get 45 shooters to a points match this year ,however, we usually get only two or three shoooters from out of town to our rifle rodeos.

The only regular shooters we have that shoot any type of competition are a very enthusiastic bunch however, and have been pushing for this range to get done, and want to see a change.
There is big support for a longer rangge here, and the way it is set up, we can shoot the long stuff at the same time someone wants to shoot at 500 or shorter.

Our long range lanes are heading off at a slight angle to the rest of the range , and this was done for that specific purpose.
It will be a great thing if we can finish it up this winter.
David
 
homestead

i am also planning on being there with all my toys. i am not sure what i'll be using but i have a 303 mark 1 and a couple of palma rifles in 308- 1 scope, 1 irons.
this sounds like a blast. see you there. i may have a seat in my car if someone needs a ride from calgary. (depends on if my buddies come)
hornhead
 
IMHO - the trigger time in F-Class competitions is one of the best range practice you'll ever get, regardless of your shooting discipline - immediate feedback of your shots from the indicators (a big round target, not a Fig 11/59, but darn challenging with wind and range) coupled with the coaching from guys that have been doing this for decades will greatly improve both your confidence and your scores in whatever style of shooting you pursue. Good luck Glenn - hope you see a good turnout!
 
Thanks Scout, I'm sure it will turn out, whatever happens. I think when the uninitiated get a look at how Match shooting works and try it, there will be some that find it's not their cup of tea. We find from past experience with new shooters, to get them to come back, patience is required during the early stages. This is something in short supply during a match. That's why I'm going to try to get the format and procedures illustrated in a more relaxed learning "clinic". After that, it's up to each to decide. At least we know we tried.

Cheers, Glen
 
Last edited:
Glen,
I think that's an excellent idea. The emphasis for new shooters, getting ready for their first few matches needs a different tact. I think you should do the timing so they can get used to that but really stress why it would be done so they can learn or find out how to layout there equipment and how much time they use up...

Scout has the idea... it's really trigger time for them... time to learn the procedural drill of moving gear onto the line, getting themselves set up and ranged on their respective targets in the time alloted for prep. Then shooting their record shots in the allowed match time and finally moving their gear back off the line. They should view this as a learning process and not worry so much about where they'll place...



Most f-class shooters would finish with plenty of time to spare...
 
Thanks John, precisely my intent.

As the day is for training/indoctrination, we're going to have to split the group (and I hope there's a group to split) to get the target work done. Giving all a complete exposure.

I'm leaning toward laying them in pairs and getting, say, 10 shots to get zeroed at 300m. Swap groups and repeat. All the while using correct alternating course of fire and semi formal commands. Scoring will be the exercise. Scores won't be kept.

Once this is done we should be able to progress on to 400m, 500m etc, maintaining the alternate shooting and marking duties format used at many of the US venues and anywhere there are no paid markers.

All the while we'll be explaining the wonderous minute of angle, elevations etc. and answering the inevitable flood of questions and see just how far we get. I'll have a TR fellow as well as one or more seasoned F Class shooters to help. I'm praying for more interested individuals than assistants. Anyway I'll report the outcome.

I should note; all of this happens after the obligatory Range Safety, Firearms Handling, Chamber flag Regs and the incidentals that are mandatory at all DCRA/PRA competitions, are discussed and understood by all.

Cheers, Glen
 
Inspector/Jay/Dale
thanks that was a lot of fun and very interesting i look forward to matches in the future if scheduling permits.....
ok, now the APRA website works again so how do i find "F" class matches? are they the full bore matches with a whole bunch of different distances?
 
Last edited:
Just got off the phone with Glen aka Inspector and he was very happy with the turn out. All had a great time and got on paper at 300m, 600yds & 800 yds.

Nice to see some people interested enough to come out a try. Congrats to those that ran and explained things (Glen, Jay, Earl, Peter, Dale and others) and congrats to those brave newbies that made it out and tried. I'm sure there were a few that were suprised at the game and how easy it really is.

That "MeatBall" is a big an a juicy one eh...

Come shoot the "Meatball" aka aiming mark with us any day guys...

Thanks, Keith
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom