How many guys posting here have shot over 100 head of game with one bullet design? (i.e. TSX, Partition, Hot-Cor, Interlock, etc) After 100 head, one might actually have an educated opinion as to how any given bullet really works on game in a practical sense. Half a dozen animals, especially if in one weight class, is just not sufficient to really judge the realistic performance of a bullet. Take a given design, shoot everything with it over several years, then make a statement. Did it kill well, even when larger animals were involved. (BTW, whether it exits or not is a non-issue) Was it a real meat ruiner, or did it penetrate well into the animal without destroying a lot of edible meat? If you recovered some, what did they look like? If a cup & core bullet, did they separate? Did you fail to recover any animals shot with this bullet, even though you were sure the shot was good? Do these bullets stay together well enough that you would take a shot through heavy bone to get to the vitals? How does it work at high velocity, or at lower velocity? There's more, but this gives an idea what a honest analysis of a bullet should be like. If the answers make you happy, keep on using this bullet, that's what I did/do. Regards, Eagleye.
Discussion about bullet performance
- Thread starter Brambles
- Start date
Yes, I've read a few accounts. Generally, it is been thought that the hollow point was deformed somewhat, and did no texpand properly.
Now, this is a couple of instances compared to THOUSANDS of excellent reports.
I've heard about bullet failures (and seen a few myself) from virtually EVERY bullet out there, including the Nosler partition, the grandaddy of premium bullets..
There is ALWAYS a chance that something can go wrong, but my experiences (and MOST others) indicate that the TSX will open quick and make nice wound cavities.
Don't be put off by "examples of one"
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
I fully believe the bullet I used opened up as designed, but mostly opened up before getting inside the lungs, probably on the skin, and ribs, leaving a flat nosed solid to do the dirty work. What I saw looked exactly like the last portion of any wound where the bullet has stopped expanding and is basically acting as a solid.
When it comes to making wound channels many times larger than expanded diameter the TSX only has one real move, the tiny and very short petals peeling back. And there is the problem, the pedals are so small and only peel back for such a short distance that the explosive effect is severely limited. After that you just have a flat solid which may make a wound slightly larger than the expanded diameter based on velocity. Wound channels from flat nosed solids will kill every time but it is just not what I am looking for.
Don't buy into the hype. The TSX is not a magic bullet that gives both the "normal" width of wound channels and extreme penetration. Wound diameter must be sacrificed to get the deep penetration. That is how it is for EVERY bullet.
When it comes to making wound channels many times larger than expanded diameter the TSX only has one real move, the tiny and very short petals peeling back. And there is the problem, the pedals are so small and only peel back for such a short distance that the explosive effect is severely limited. After that you just have a flat solid which may make a wound slightly larger than the expanded diameter based on velocity. Wound channels from flat nosed solids will kill every time but it is just not what I am looking for.
Don't buy into the hype. The TSX is not a magic bullet that gives both the "normal" width of wound channels and extreme penetration. Wound diameter must be sacrificed to get the deep penetration. That is how it is for EVERY bullet.
Most Of my experience has been on taking Whitetail, some bears , some moose. Drove some bullets at crazy velocity through deer for them to die as quick as some i killed when i first started hunting with an old 303.
the only hydraulic, or should say bone shattering lay down smased to teh ground dead was from a front end shoulder shot, smashing through. Or a head shot that i made under a very controled situation.
Other than that, I drove deer with everything from a 22-250 to a 45/70 and most in beween , and on white tail bullet selection just did no seem to make much difference.
On moose you hit them throught the boiler room and they run away I have yet to see any hydrostaic kill from any bullet at any speed. I the front shoulder with a bonded bullet they go down, they dont die but the go down, you cant run if you dont have legs!!
And I have tried trust me, a hot loaded 30-378 with a 28 " barrel with a nosler BT could not do it, but it made a neat hole! but not as big as you would think.
As for bear, I shot one with mt 338 and a 250 gr Sierra Pro Hunter, it ran and 150 yards, it was a great shot, same bullet on a white tail , it went 1/4 mile behind the front shoulder. Again shot one bear with a 303 and it went 25 yards stone dead?? and others that ran from 30-06 to 45/70, the bottom line they all died, if the bullet tagged the lungs, heart liver ect.......
I shot a deer in the front end with a nosler Part through the lungs, out through the far shouder, the deer acted like it did not flinch ( it was on the run) it went down 50 yards past stone dead with a 7mm Rum , not hydraulic effect i seen.
Shot a deer with a 243 in the boiler with a 100 gr sierra GK, and it anchored it flattened it never moved,as dead as dead can get, and than again punched holes throught them that should have flattened them but didn't with fast larger diameter calibers.
Bottom line Hit the boiler, Lungs, Heart ect.. with any bullet and you get your animal.
You want to smash them down, shoot high in the front shoulder. For any game
I think X bullets work, Hornady work, sierra work, Noslers work, I think any bullet will work if it shoot accurate and it gets deleverd to the Boiler room.
the only hydraulic, or should say bone shattering lay down smased to teh ground dead was from a front end shoulder shot, smashing through. Or a head shot that i made under a very controled situation.
Other than that, I drove deer with everything from a 22-250 to a 45/70 and most in beween , and on white tail bullet selection just did no seem to make much difference.
On moose you hit them throught the boiler room and they run away I have yet to see any hydrostaic kill from any bullet at any speed. I the front shoulder with a bonded bullet they go down, they dont die but the go down, you cant run if you dont have legs!!
And I have tried trust me, a hot loaded 30-378 with a 28 " barrel with a nosler BT could not do it, but it made a neat hole! but not as big as you would think.
As for bear, I shot one with mt 338 and a 250 gr Sierra Pro Hunter, it ran and 150 yards, it was a great shot, same bullet on a white tail , it went 1/4 mile behind the front shoulder. Again shot one bear with a 303 and it went 25 yards stone dead?? and others that ran from 30-06 to 45/70, the bottom line they all died, if the bullet tagged the lungs, heart liver ect.......
I shot a deer in the front end with a nosler Part through the lungs, out through the far shouder, the deer acted like it did not flinch ( it was on the run) it went down 50 yards past stone dead with a 7mm Rum , not hydraulic effect i seen.
Shot a deer with a 243 in the boiler with a 100 gr sierra GK, and it anchored it flattened it never moved,as dead as dead can get, and than again punched holes throught them that should have flattened them but didn't with fast larger diameter calibers.
Bottom line Hit the boiler, Lungs, Heart ect.. with any bullet and you get your animal.
You want to smash them down, shoot high in the front shoulder. For any game
I think X bullets work, Hornady work, sierra work, Noslers work, I think any bullet will work if it shoot accurate and it gets deleverd to the Boiler room.
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just to throw a wrench into things.
what is the minimum FPS for proper "Premium" bullet expansion that you are comfortable with.
according to barnes the MRX can go 100fps slower than the tsx for proper expansion.
i'm thinking maybe down to 1800 fps??
what is the minimum FPS for proper "Premium" bullet expansion that you are comfortable with.
according to barnes the MRX can go 100fps slower than the tsx for proper expansion.
i'm thinking maybe down to 1800 fps??
Wow, the average shooter from this study http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/game_study.html must suck. Only 6% heart shots and 66% lung shots from stands? Yet even with crappy marksmanship, only 8% of the deer "got away" after being shot. Poor shots to legs, abdomen, neck, etc were blamed. No mention of "non-premium bullet combined with a bone hit". Standard bullets proved to be statistically quicker-killing than premium ones on deer with 58% insta-kills vs 40% for the premiums. Who cares though, they all still died.
Deer aren't invincible, and from the study above you can see that any mediocre shot from a 257 up to a 300 win mag did the trick regardless of bullet premiumness.
Deer aren't invincible, and from the study above you can see that any mediocre shot from a 257 up to a 300 win mag did the trick regardless of bullet premiumness.
I read on another forum where an alaskan resident shot an alaskan moose on purpose with a 7mm-08 120gr TSX DOUBLE SHOULDER SHOT and had a complete pass through, he has complete trust in the bullet and wanted to prove it even further.
What kind of a duffus would purposely shoot a moose though both shoulders and risk ruining a bunch of meat.
What kind of a duffus would purposely shoot a moose though both shoulders and risk ruining a bunch of meat.
I subscribe to this also. I would rather a few extra lbs of burger from a non-premium than having to pack my animal an extra couple hundred yards from a premium that didn't cause a bang-flop.
Yeah, I know it ain't that simple....
The kind of dufous that doesn't mind sacrificing a pound of hamburger to make sure the other 500 lbs goes right down?
I wonder of my bullet will go from Ars@#*e to neck. I must put that on the to do list.
If this duffus shot it behind the front shoulder it would make sense.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
What kind of a duffus would purposely shoot a moose though both shoulders and risk ruining a bunch of meat.
The kind of doofus who never wants a wounded animal to get away!
I know at least three long time big game hunters who used to always go for the hear/lung shot, but after years (decades in two cases) of this they each eventually had a moose or caribou that they "hit perfectly" in the boiler, run away and never get recovered. They all switched to front shoulder only shots and have never had anything get away again. LOTS of guys are front shoulder shooters, and both shoulders is better. My father is a front shoulder guy and he acually cut away and weighed the lost meat from a broadside hit on a moose with a 375 H&H with 300 grain silvertip; lost meat exactly 4.5 lbs.
I don't know anyone who shoots for the front shoulders who regrets it, but I do know a few heart/lung guys who wished they had shot for the shoulders.
The farthest I ever had a moose get myself was about fifteen yards and that was with no heart left after being hit with a .338 win mag with 250 gr Sierra Gameking. All my other moose hit the dirt within ten feet of being hit and died, but they were all shot on an angle through the lungs and onwards into the front shoulder. If I can get a heart lung shot AND a shoulder I'll take it, but if I have to take a pure broadside shot I'll take the shoulder.
On a side note I don't buy into the whole "shock" killing animals much either. My moose shot right through the heart never even flinched, just kept walking and then flopped over after about eight moose paces. I've seen plently of bears and moose get hit with 300 mags, 338 mags and 375 mags and unless there is major bone broken, or a brain/spine shot, they just run like hell (sometimes the moose just keep on walking like nothing happened) and die later, sometimes 150 to 200 yards. I've also seen a man hit a moose through the heart and the moose trot 30 yards to a fast moving river and get to the bank and then fall in the water and sink and be lost. Then I saw a grown man sit on a rock and cry.
When I do the shooting I think biomechanics - no brain or no spine or no shoulders to walk on means animal falls down right now; everything else you're taking your chances.
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I wonder of my bullet will go from Ars@#*e to neck. I must put that on the to do list.
If this duffus shot it behind the front shoulder it would make sense.
How many animals have you shot wiht a TSX in the shoudler, and how much meat was ruined?
Like Northman, I have no qualms about an angling shot that takes out one shoulder and the lungs at one time, and it makes no difference if the animal is quartering towards me or away from me. However, unlike him, I am deign to whack a Moose, Elk or any other non-dangerous game animal in the shoulders on a true, broadside presentation. My personal experience over 50 years of hunting big game has made me opinionated, and I do not like to lose any more edible Elk, Moose etc than is necessary. I have never had an animal make it much over 100 yards after being hit in the heart-lung area with a decent bullet. (No secret to those who know me that I shoot Partitions in most cases) Not surprisingly, the animals which have gone the farthest after being hit have been smallish deer, but even so, 120 yards is the long run, with 90% of animals I have shot, broadside or other, have been down within 40 yards. Bang-flops do happen, but I do not expect them. An animal that is "lost" is usually shot marginally, rather than a good solid hit through the lungs, no matter how well the shooter may feel he hit it, if it was lost, there is no way to know for sure. I once watched a guy flatten a deer at about 120 yards with a 280 Remington/139 Interlock. He was so confident that it was dead that he ran towards it without chambering another round. Imagine his chagrin when the Deer jumped up when he was about 25 feet from it and ran down into a little draw, out of his sight. I managed to spot it trying to sneak out of the draw about 15 minutes later and gave it a shot through the lungs. The first shot had hit very low, cutting a groove through the brisket right ahead of the diaphragm, temporarily winding the deer, but in no way a fatal shot. Yet he said he would have sworn his shot was right through the lungs. I suspect that this happens every once in a while, sponsoring those stories about lung-shot animal that escaped, or travelled a mile, etc, etc, Regards, Eagleye.
Gatehouse; I would not judge any bullet by one single scenario, but last fall I shot a nice, fat 3-point muley on the point of the onside shoulder as he quartered toward me, bullet exited just at the last rib on the opposite side. Lost the entire shoulder to bloodshot. No big deal, just reporting my one experience. As I have posted before, I would need to shoot a lot more game to give a report that really meant anything. Regards, Eagleye.
I got to disagree with you on this one, I have personally shot about a dozen deer, a very large moose and african animals up to elk size with TSX bullets, I have also been alongside when my son shot smaller numbers but similar sized animals. Last fall I shot a very big moose broadside, took out a rib going in, turned the lungs and heart to basically soup and broke the shoulder on the off side with a 168 gr TSX fm my 300 win mag. The damage inside the chest of this moose was dramatic. I have had very similar results on all the deer I have shot, the african animals enjoyed total penetration and the farthest any of them went was about 50 yards. The only exception was an Eland bull I hit really badly. The wound channels have been really good, not ballistic tip good, but the kills have been dramatic. Of the 40 or so animals I have either shot or watched get shot the only two bullet we recoverd were from that moose and a zebra my son shot with is 30-06 at about 100 yards which broke both shoulders and it just keeld over. We both killed wildebeest with one shot throgh the boiler room that didn't go 50 yards between them.
The PH was particularly impressed with the zebra and wildebeest, which he tells me take an average of about three shots to drop.
The smallest animals I also shot a springbuck and moumtain reedbuck also dropped like stones with massive internal damage.
The TSX is "to me" the perfect bullet for killing stuff quickly and efficiently, the guys that say it doesn't shoot up much meat must not be driving them too hard because I find they are just like any other bullet driven at 3200 fps, whatever they hit is bruised like hell. I don't really care because hunting is about killing the critter quickly whatever it is.
The calibres I've used or watched TSX bullet kill with are 260 rem, 270 win, 30.06, 300 WSM and 300 Win mag, not a complete list but a pretty good one either way. Muzzle velocites vary fom 2700 to 3200, the only thing I would say is I shoot one size smaller bullet with the TSX and drive them as fast as I can.
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Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
martinbns,
Have you heard anything of the TSX in .338? I still like my Gamekings, but I'm almost out of them and I am considering switching to the TSX. Any weight reccomendations? I usually go for 250's in my .338 win mag, as I don't really like the idea of shooting really light and basically turning my .338 into a 300 Weatherby; but if people have heard really good things in .338 in ligher weight I might be tempted...
Have you heard anything of the TSX in .338? I still like my Gamekings, but I'm almost out of them and I am considering switching to the TSX. Any weight reccomendations? I usually go for 250's in my .338 win mag, as I don't really like the idea of shooting really light and basically turning my .338 into a 300 Weatherby; but if people have heard really good things in .338 in ligher weight I might be tempted...
I once shot a cow and calf while they were swimming, long way back to the boat to get it and wait untill they were on land again. Both were obviously shot in the head, both floated.
Do you think this is because of the head shots? Do moose with holes in the shoulders/lungs sink? Never gave it much thought before, just assumed they would all float?
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I had heard from several people that moose and caribou float, if shot in the head float particularly well, due to the fact that their hair is hollow and a head shot also means their lungs are full of air. Floating in a nice calm lake is not the same as floating in the fast and silty Yukon River, where this moose was shot and immediately dissapeared into the dirty current once he fell in, never to be seen again. I guess that situation was one of those where what happens right in front of you isn't what you heard happens...
