New hunter asking for advice on good quality minimal rig

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guncurious

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Hello everyone, this is my first post after lurking for a while and trying to absorb as much as possible before hand...

I just gor my CORE certificate and ID (I live in BC) and I'm waiting for my PAL to come through. In the meantime I am trying to choose what gun I would purchase and have an idea but since I have never hunted I want to know what experienced people think of it. Here are my thoughts:

First, although I would like to hunt a deer at some point I would like to start with upland birds and/or rabbits, progress to migratory birds and then maybe ungulates at a later point.

Second, the wife is not too comfortable with he idea of a gun in the house; after some negotiation it seems a break action that can be stored and locked in pieces might pass muster, but only one. I like the simplicity of the action so I'm quite OK with this.

Third, I'm of the "buy once, cry once" persuassion so I would like to buy one quality gun and learn to use it even if it means saving a bit longer, unless this is prohibitive.

Fourth, for my intended purposes I believe a 20ga O/U in 26" barrells should be good; covering waterfowl, upland, rabbit and even slugs for deer. Is this correct?

Fifth, I would try and purchase a couple of 22wmr inserts so I can learn to shoot at the range without killing my shoulder. Is this a good idea? I can go to a shotgun club to learn the shotgun part.

Finally, it would be ideal to be able to purchase an aditional set of 24" express barrels in .308W for use on the same stock at a later date to open up the posibility of larger game. Feedback please.

I was set on a Baikal until I heard they are banned from import. It seems that only the italians make something like this (F.A.I.R., Sabatti, Marocchi, maybe RFM) any suggestions, comment on quality, etc.

Thanks a lot.

Guncurious.
 
A good idea, that may suffer in execution.

A shotgun is a good idea if you are starting with small game, if waterfowl is likely, make it a 12 gauge, not 20 gauge and just tailor the loads to the game. Forget about the Rimfire inserts, they suck and are just frustrating and do not offer realistic practice. A Rimfire rifle is not expensive and if you end up enjoying shooting sports and hunting, you will want a nice Rimfire rifle for paper and plinking and some small game... a CZ 452/455 bolt action would be good. Also, in my opinion, forget about the over/under .308 barrels and again, just pick up a solid bolt action rifle when/if you ever decide to do big game hunting, by then your wife will be warmed up to the idea.
 
hoytcanon said:
A good idea, that may suffer in execution.

A shotgun is a good idea if you are starting with small game, if waterfowl is likely, make it a 12 gauge, not 20 gauge and just tailor the loads to the game. Forget about the Rimfire inserts, they suck and are just frustrating and do not offer realistic practice. A Rimfire rifle is not expensive and if you end up enjoying shooting sports and hunting, you will want a nice Rimfire rifle for paper and plinking and some small game... a CZ 452/455 bolt action would be good. Also, in my opinion, forget about the over/under .308 barrels and again, just pick up a solid bolt action rifle when/if you ever decide to do big game hunting, by then your wife will be warmed up to the idea.
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I agree with all that. Get real guns, not gimmicky guns.
 
Also agree with Hoyt's recommendation of not going with an O/U and inserts for rimfire and centerfire.

You would be much better off buying quality firearms specific to the purpose (i.e. shotgun, rimfire and centerfire rifles). This will also help you meet goal #3.

If you are set on an O/U shotgun/rimfire for upland birds and small game, you could try to find a used Savage combination shotgun/rimfire in 12 or 20 ga and 22lr or 22 WMR. Many who have them, do like them. (They do not make these anymore, so it will be used)

As for your wife, but also for safety and security, you would be well advised to invest in a decent gun safe.
 
Get a 22 and a pump action shotgun with an extra slug barrel.

Take the wife shooting with the 22.
 
If your set on a O/U and geese for waterfowl, get a 12. Check out the shotgun ee. Familiarize yourself with what you want and its price. Then your ready when a deal is posted.

O/U is not ideal, but can be done for slugs. Realistically, without sights or optics, its a white of their eyes deer gun.

Not sure of the configuration of Savage 24. The most desired, pricey are the 22/410. I believe the 20 gauge is 30/30 over 20 ga.
Do not......Do not....buy a new manufacture Savage 42. Definitely in the top five running for worst gun ever.
 
You need to sit down with your wife and try to get her to be more comfortable with the idea of safe and secure storage, it’s really going to be a big deal if you want to hunt and target shoot. You will likely want at minimum one centre fire rifle for large game, a shotgun for small game and upland bird and possibly a .22 for other small game when a shotgun isn’t appropriate.

I get that some people aren’t into guns or comfortable with them but this is a trust issue in my eyes, if she really trusts you as a person then guns in the house stored securely shouldn’t be an issue. You need to work on this aspect in a big way, once you get her on board you’ll be good to go.
 
Thanks for the replies.

A combination was what I was initially attracted to (Chiappa Double Badger) but then found out that you might need a follow up shot for birds so a double made more sense then.

I have never bought a gun so I wouldn't know what to look for in a used gun. I have shot friends guns and I know some of them bought them used but they have tons of experience.

What would be a good 20 or 12 o/u? (SxS make me want to look at the barrels instead of ahead). Does anyone shoot at deer with slugs? When I took the hunting course a rifle was always implied, no information other than the minimum buckshot size allowed on shotguns was given.

Wife grew in a comunist country where serfs were taught to fear guns; a break action where it can become parts and be stored inconspicuously seems to be easier for her than a safe. The plan is to buy a lockable plano box and store the stock with a trigger lock on disconnected from the barrels.
 
Get your self a 12G pump action shotgun. A pump is pretty darn simple and is easily taken apart for your desired storage. Rem870 has an incredible abundance of after market parts including barrels. So when you choose to try something other then birds..... you can purchase a rifled barrel with sights and of you go deer and bear hunting with the gun your already familiar with.
 
guncurious said:
What would be a good 20 or 12 o/u? (SxS make me want to look at the barrels instead of ahead). Does anyone shoot at deer with slugs? When I took the hunting course a rifle was always implied, no information other than the minimum buckshot size allowed on shotguns was given.
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Someone will likely give you a couple O/U models to look into, I tend to be more of a pump shotgun guy.

People shoot deer and bear with slugs, they wouldnt be my first choice but if you’re within range they will do the job. I’ve shot deer ranging from 25y to 100y with a rifle, I’d likely limit myself to 60-80y with slugs provided I had something with more than a bead sight and I’d spent some real time with it sighting it in and knowing I’m good with it at certain distances. The three I shot that were 45y or less would’ve been dead if I had a 12g with slugs, a rifle is nice in case you need to take a 100-150y shot and can’t sneak in closer.

For small game, waterfowl or upland game a O/U would be great. Maybe once your wife gets comfortable with it in the house she’ll warm up to the idea of a bolt action rifle. Eventually you’ll want one if hunting turns out to be something you enjoy.
 
You need more than one gun for what you are after. You need to convince your wife not to be afraid of objects.
 
There are some gun manufactures out there that can provide rifle barrels and shotgun barrels one the same action. They are not cheap. They can be extremely expensive but if youre set one only having 1 break action gun go for it. Slugs can take any big game if youre in close but rifles are better options.
Rimfire inserts suck for the most part

Youll want a ou with choke tubes if you tend to use it for everything. 12ga is more versatile than a 20 when you add in non toxic loads for ducks and geese
 
Get a pump shotgun. 12 ga. Rem 870, mossberg 500. Every time you think you need a new gun just buy a new barrel. There isnt much in North America that cant be taken with an 870 and the right barrel ammo/combo. By the time you look to hunt something that you cant take with an 870, you will be so deep into it that buying the right gun shouldnt be a problem.

Lastly, get a gun locker. It makes the wifey feel a little safer, and its how guys have been hiding new purchases in plain sight for decades.
 
First of all congratulations and welcome to a great sport, secondly as the general gist of the thread states buying what you want would likely be very cost prohibitive for the average middle class working person here in Canada and a lot of us lack experience with it. Waterfowling and wing shooting certainly can be done with a single shot but a follow up shot can often be a great aid in reducing lost game, combination guns can lead to a lot of questions being asked and suspicion cast your way by enforcement officers if found in your possession while waterfowling has been my experience.
A dedicated .22 will certainly be a great boon for learning the fundamentals of rifle or slug marksmanship and be a valuable small game getting tool, but isn't much use for learning wingshooting. The clay games, Skeet, Sporting clays and trap are where you learn to wingshoot.

Like other posters have said a quality pump action with a bird barrel and a dedicated slug barrel can be broken down to an almost as inconspicuous package as a break action and would satisfy the majority of your wants in the most cost effective way and I am sure you could use the argument of dollar investment to help win her over.
 
hoytcanon said:
A good idea, that may suffer in execution.

A shotgun is a good idea if you are starting with small game, if waterfowl is likely, make it a 12 gauge, not 20 gauge and just tailor the loads to the game. Forget about the Rimfire inserts, they suck and are just frustrating and do not offer realistic practice. A Rimfire rifle is not expensive and if you end up enjoying shooting sports and hunting, you will want a nice Rimfire rifle for paper and plinking and some small game... a CZ 452/455 bolt action would be good. Also, in my opinion, forget about the over/under .308 barrels and again, just pick up a solid bolt action rifle when/if you ever decide to do big game hunting, by then your wife will be warmed up to the idea.
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Nailed it.
 
I sort of played this game in the beginning. My wife wasn't quite as uptight as yours seems to be, but she wasn't keen that's for sure. Also, I didn't have a lot of extra money so I wanted to get as much function in a gun as I could.

I researched it and asked around just like you are, and I got the same advice that you are getting; forget the 1-gun solution and gimmicks.

Ultimately, if hunting is for you, you are going to end up with a 12 or 20 GA pump or double, a .22 and a centrefire of some sort - minimum.

Here I am years later and I have 8 guns in my cabinet (not considered a lot), my wife has her PAL, and my whole family hunts.

You'll get there... Plan for it.
 
I wouldn't get too excited about hunting rabbits.

There may be handful of people here who actually target snowshoe hares, but for the most part in my experience you won't see any rabbits. This ain't Nova Scotia.

An snowshoe hares? Well in regular hunting season I've only seen them in the last 1/2 hour of the day, hardly worth dedicating a hunt too. Upland birds? Most people shoot grouse at the side of the road opportunistically during other hunts.

Real upland hunting of pheasnats, quail, chukar etc., is a dedicated sport usually involving a dog and dedication.

But really, ironsighter above in post # 17 nailed it.

There ain't one gun that's gonna do it for you. I've seen posts like yours many times, guys wanting to start out small and work up, but to be honest, learning to hunt black bears and deer in BC is probably the easiest of any that you are considering. But that's just one opinion and I've only been hunting since 1968.
 
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Thanks for all the replies.

So far it is clear that an insert is not such a great idea after all, so that is out.

It seems that an O/U in 12 or 20gaX3" with removable chokes is likely a good starting point. Any suggestions about which brand/where to get are most welcome.

I will leave the .22 and .308 for a later time and then buy a "proper" setup for them.

I would like more pointers about how to start hunting and I'm intrigued by the comments saying deer hunting is a better start. I assumed that birds would be easier because a) they fit in an apartment fridge and b) I have seen/helped plucking/gutting when I was a kid. I'm under the assumption that a deer will need a sizable freezer and thought that learning to skin a rabbit would help (of course if there are no rabbits/hares then this is a moot point)

Thanks for sharing what you did when you travelled this road, it is very valuable to me.
 
ha, yer in BC?
we should get together..... bring your wife..... she can meet my wife..... and my wife will bring her around to the realities of living with a responsible firearms owner. Been together 14 years, married for 12 this july. She went thru a war and is still okay with my firearms ownership and use. She does not bother herself with what type action ect ect , just that they are stored safely.
Get a good safe you both can use for valuable like her jewellry or important keepsakes. I put in a fireproof, theft proof concrete floor vault but it is a little overkill haha
Your rifle will be a tool to be used to harvest game cleanly and efficiently for years to come , can't let the wife's unfounded perceptions that one kind of action is any safer than any other get in the way of having the right tools for the job at hand.
 
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