case colour: who is in favour of redoing?

Londonshooter

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Well maybe this is contentious and of course is a matter of personal preference, but personally am not a fan. This gun on the EE for example to my tastes would have more value if had been left alone. Am I alone in this? I suspect possibly, yes.
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Good question John.

To me, having had five or six done and other restorations that I did not have it done, I have to say it depends on the gun and the guy doing the CCH. I really have to look at everything that is being considered and the gun itself to come to a conclusion. But generally what I find is, simply put, the more engraving, the less value I place on fresh CC. The less engraving, the more value I put on fresh CC.

Edit to add: Hard to comment on the example you used because we aren't really seeing the who gun as we would in person. So can't really judge the effect and whether it suits the rest of the gun. I'm always trying to achieve balance of appearance between the stock, the action and the barrels. They need to look like they match.....are part of the same gun. When they don't it's terrible. LOL
 
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Do you have before pictures or are you simply speculating on it's prior condition and generally turned off from refurbished older guns?
 
Different strokes for different folks. Americans seem to prefer their classic and antique guns completely refinished to resemble new, the Brits will reblack or rebrown and have the stock rechequered and refinished when the original finish is worn enough that the original weather protection is compromised. Unfortunately in this country, extensive refinishing often results in damage by over buffing or sanding, resulting in the wood level being taken below the adjoining metal surfaces, beautiful hand engraving being blurred, washed out and faint, screw holes dished, corners rounded instead of crisp, and often inappropriate finishes used. Careful precise and correct restoration requires tedious painstaking work, usually by several different specialists - mechanical such as rejointing a loose gun, honing pitted bores, ejector work, making and timing replacement worn screws, blueing, blacking and browning, stock repair and refinishing, chequering, case colouring, all may be by different people. All of this work takes time to do and to move the gun from one person to another and this costs money - lots of it. So you can easily spend more for the gun and the restoration than the true market value of the finished product if you aren't careful when choosing your project. For me, a candidate for a complete makeover must first be of fine original quality and be in very good condition, no rust, no pitting, no serious barrel dents, very good barrel wall thicknesses, no broken, cracked or badly damaged wood but little or no original finish. Above all, never having been previously scrubbed, buffed or refinished. Really I prefer an original with honest light wear and scrupulous care to most restorations I have seen, which to me just appear to be a masquerade. Also remember, the highest value collectibles of any type are the highest original condition specimens, pretenders don't cut it, the crude refer to those as fakes. You can only be original once. The listed gun by Edwinson Green (a very good but little known maker) is a very basic grade hammer gun which, while undoubtably well made, was probably at the bottom of their price list and is nothing special compared to countless others made at this time. IF the wall thicknesses are good and IF the bores are excellent and IF the gun locks up tight with the forend removed, it would make an attractive hammer gun shooter, but it isn't collector grade. My guess is that the asking price is near the total investment someone has in this gun. Is it worth it? Not to me, but maybe to somebody.
 
LOL, Ashcroft gives a good list of what can go wrong when refinishing is done by those who don't know what they are doing.

A friend asked me to take a look at a gun he inherited. A perfectly good Greener from around the turn of the last century. This gun has every single defect of workmanship and finishing that Ashcroft described. And then some. It's sad to look at it and know that someone, sometime, paid good money to have the gun ruined.

To Ashcroft's point about "collector" guns. Several years ago, a highest grade Remington 1894 16 gauge EE grade sold at auction for a hammer price of $60,000 usd. The gun was essentially new and unfired and it's provenance was complete and irrefutable. It has been purchased new in 1910 and had been in the care of a bank, in a vault from roughly 1911 until the late 1990's when it was sold off by the bank as the original owner was long gone with no heirs (he was a Mexican national).

Similarly rare Remington 1894 16 gauge EE guns, with uncertain provenance but still is very good condition (but who knows if original or not) will sell in the $18-$30K usd range.
 
On this particular gun, to the credit of the craftsmen who did the work- the wood adjoining the lock hasn't been taken down too far and what can be seen of the chequering looks impeccable. However, someone broke a chip out of the wood removing that lock. The engraving on the lock is still strong but it has been slightly over buffed, it is no longer sharp and crisp as it once was. I have seen the other pictures of this gun, the case colours have been very well done, probably by Oskar Kob, he's the best in this country, but I find them a little bold for my taste. You will never find an original in this condition and if you did you wouldn't want to pony up the asking price, but if you want a nice pretty hammer gun to use this deserves consideration. BUT the barrels, even though they look good in pictures, could be poop, the stock could be real short, could be a lefty, might be loose ( not likely). The last nice hammer gun that I sold was an Army and Navy, spectacular wood, 85-90% original colours, strong flawless blueing, tight, in proof, nitro proofed in the original case ( ratty) with original provenance. Best I could do two years ago was $1500.
 
Guys when we ask or respond about CCH rejuvenation ,it truly is down to the owner of that particular gun and his tastes, 150%....that being said if a person is not happy with with certain colors or wishes for different tones -talk to the guy doing the work ,Oskar can give you pretty much what you want in colors ,the brightness/boldness you see in pics is sometimes just that ,the pics !!!- also there is a baked on protective lacquer on the metal that without it ,your money would be down the drain in a couple years ,when you look at the refurbished gun in the pic the colors look #### because like most customers when asked to go all the way with the CCH this guy stopped short ,meaning having the frame annealed ,struck down properly and engraving recut then have the CCH redone -its understandable I guess,it drives the price up ,way up !...but when you get pics like this of your newly refurbished gun at magnification and high resolution ,were seeing what our eyes don't actually see when that gun is in hand .

just my two cents for what its worth.
 
Collector or shooter is the question... collecting you leave it alone, if it is a shooter refinish to suit your taste.

I collect "shooters," so it depends on the base value whether or not I will refinish... if it is a "keeper/shooter" I refinish the gun every time, if it is a "seller/shooter" I mostly leave it unmolested.
 
I also collect shooters, Hoyt.
By the way I would never download a photo of someone's gun from their EE ad and post it (unless I had bought it). In this case I grabbed it from the vendors website because wanted to see the images in a larger format. Site sponsor https://www.eaglefirearms.ca/
Here is one same maker and same vintage but original. I really wanted the gun in question to be original. Asking price of this one is Euro 12,500
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I like that it doesn't look like an old lady that Brad Marchand punched in the face when the refs weren't looking.
 
I also collect shooters, Hoyt.
By the way I would never download a photo of someone's gun from their EE ad and post it (unless I had bought it). In this case I grabbed it from the vendors website because wanted to see the images in a larger format. Site sponsor https://www.eaglefirearms.ca/
Here is one same maker and same vintage but original. I really wanted the gun in question to be original. Asking price of this one is Euro 12,500
for398F.jpg

I like that it doesn't look like an old lady that Brad Marchand punched in the face when the refs weren't looking.

Hey! Leave Marchand out of this when he cant defend himself. He’s busy winning hockey games. Go Bruins!!
 
Hey! Leave Marchand out of this when he cant defend himself. He’s busy winning hockey games. Go Bruins!!

Dirty little facelicker can sure play hockey, huh?
Back to the Green & sons, the gun has a lot going for it. 1914 manufacture, 2 3/4 nitro-proofed, excellent maker with numerous patents including O/U design used by Purdey. I don't in fact dislike the CCH colours, just am neutral on it and not something I would pay extra for. As Chris said, the engraving should have been chased beforehand. Basically I agree with all the comments except about that pri@k Marchand. Gave the Eagle Firearms Ltd a very lowball offer after a conversation by phone about the stock dimensions and barrels and this morning by email they surprised me by accepting it!
 
Yup, the hidden value on this gun is the nitro proofed steel barrels with original 2 3/4" chambers, providing the barrels are good. This is a hard combination to find on a British hammer double. Bonus feature - island locks for those that value this feature. The other Green gun shown at a very high estimated price is a much higher grade. Looks like you might have adopted a nice shooter.
I can hardly wait until somebody takes that thug Marchand and punches his lights out, hopefully before he permanently cripples someone.
 
Congrats on your new aquisition! Will it be joining you at the SxS shoot?

mmm probably '63. Not if I discover I can't hit anything with it. The lineup this year is looking like MacNaughton, Green, Thuillier, Horsley, and Atkin. Maybe Powell. And I guess Jefferies since Patrick wants a group photo of past years' best guns, although I don't see a red 2018 beside my name. The Atkin is (gasp) hammerless. The others are proper guns.
 
mmm probably '63. Not if I discover I can't hit anything with it. The lineup this year is looking like MacNaughton, Green, Thuillier, Horsley, and Atkin. Maybe Powell. And I guess Jefferies since Patrick wants a group photo of past years' best guns, although I don't see a red 2018 beside my name. The Atkin is (gasp) hammerless. The others are proper guns.

I just looked. You are in red, John.
 
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