BCL 102 catastrophic failure

cr5 said:
Of course I don't like BCL, I've been watching and reading about them putting out products of this quality since they started and we're just lucky no one has gotten killed by one of their mistakes. I've owned their AR parts in the past and still have an NEA receiver set. Other than the receiver set I have everything else I've owned of theirs has been crap, I only bought the receiver set because it was super cheap and was used so I knew that it was at least in spec and my parts would fit.
You can like them if you like but I let their track record, reports and pictures from other owners, and my personal experience with their products form my opinion. I don't just ignore the negatives and disregard years of history because I spent my money on their stuff.
Go back in the forums as far back as you like and you'll find threads from guys who bought NEA and had issues, it's not just one or two every 1000 units.

Come back and tell us how impressed you are with their product when you have a few thousand rounds through your rifle. My bet is that it won't make it to 3000 rounds.

Regardless of my opinion of BCL, this thread is about trying to help this guy figure out what happened to his rifle. Unfortunately until he takes it to someone who knows AR's really well we're never going to figure it out. There's only so much you can figure out looking at pictures and asking questions.
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Thanks Cr5 for that grounding of this thread. I am in Hamilton area of Southern Ontario. Anyone recommend a good AR shop?
 
45C said:
Isn’t that for the new Troy 102, that hasn’t been released yet.
I know it’s a BCL design but Troy haven’t built any yet.
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I have been told to expect to see photos of completed rifles next week. I have been sent photos of teh production along the way, but asked not to share as it shows proprietary jigs and stuff.

This is a quote from TSE, July 5 2019
 
The case was to long, it got forced into the chamber,causing set back.
So two things at play.
Then with the bolt not being completely locked , he pulled the trigger.
The force drove the BCG back into the buffer and blew the guts out of the rifle.
 
I do not have much to add to this conversation, but I will interject 2 things...

1- OP, I am very glad to hear that you still have all your fingers and both eyes.

2- I have “investigated” a couple KBs post incident. None of them were in an AR platform.

The case only looks like that if the round goes off when the camber is not closed. If the bolt was able to even partially close, the case would have been supported and wouldn’t have blown out the side wall of the case.

I have seen 1 such event caused by a “proud” primer on a reload. The primer went off once round partially entered the chamber, stopped 3/4 inserted and the bolt return spring was pressing on the proud primer hard enough that the primer was ignited. There was no dimple on the primer of that destroyed case.

John
 
I don’t know the mechanics of the AR platform well enough to know why (or even guess why) the round was ignited before the bolt was in battery, but From what I see from the pictures of the blown case does the following make sense regarding sequence of events?

Primer ignited prior to bolt being fully in battery. Pressure from expanding gases immediately starts to move cartridge and BCG rearward. The unsupported portion of the case blows out allowing the case to collapse rearward. Expanding gases blow out the case neck to chamber wall because it is no longer supported by the chamber neck due to rear travel of bolt/case plus the collapse of the case at the case failure hole.Enough pressure exists to not only send the bullet out the barrel but gas also exits rearward around the case neck partially collapsing the side of the case as it exits. Enough gas escapes rearward to exit through the magwell and blow out the bottom of the mag. Because the bolt was not in battery when it was forced to the rear the cam pin was not in the correct position, scarring the upper receiver and contributing to the BCG being jammed and the bolt being unable to be rotated.

How’s that for a pretty uneducated stab at the sequence of events?:redface:

Question: Did the firing pin dimple (which looks fairly normal to me) get that deep from the initial strike or because the bolt rotated back and allowed further firing pin protrusion which the case was pushed against? ie: could it have initially been a light strike on a proud primer which subsequently got deeper due to the case being pushed back onto the firing pin?

Like most accidents could it be not one single cause but a “perfect storm” with excessive case length, out of spec components, slightly proud primer, and soft tipped bullets all contributing to the final outcome?

Thanks for enduring the musings of an AR newb trying to learn.
 
wapitiwhacker said:
I don’t know the mechanics of the AR platform well enough to know why (or even guess why) the round was ignited before the bolt was in battery, but From what I see from the pictures of the blown case does the following make sense regarding sequence of events?

Primer ignited prior to bolt being fully in battery. Pressure from expanding gases immediately starts to move cartridge and BCG rearward. The unsupported portion of the case blows out allowing the case to collapse rearward. Expanding gases blow out the case neck to chamber wall because it is no longer supported by the chamber neck due to rear travel of bolt/case plus the collapse of the case at the case failure hole.Enough pressure exists to not only send the bullet out the barrel but gas also exits rearward around the case neck partially collapsing the side of the case as it exits. Enough gas escapes rearward to exit through the magwell and blow out the bottom of the mag. Because the bolt was not in battery when it was forced to the rear the cam pin was not in the correct position, scarring the upper receiver and contributing to the BCG being jammed and the bolt being unable to be rotated.

How’s that for a pretty uneducated stab at the sequence of events?:redface:

Question: Did the firing pin dimple (which looks fairly normal to me) get that deep from the initial strike or because the bolt rotated back and allowed further firing pin protrusion which the case was pushed against? ie: could it have initially been a light strike on a proud primer which subsequently got deeper due to the case being pushed back onto the firing pin?

Like most accidents could it be not one single cause but a “perfect storm” with excessive case length, out of spec components, slightly proud primer, and soft tipped bullets all contributing to the final outcome?

Thanks for enduring the musings of an AR newb trying to learn.
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It appears to be a normal firing pin strike, that should not be possible when the bolt is out of battery, which it clearly was because the lugs are still on the bolt carrier according to the op and the damage to the casing pictured
 
so what if...… and a big what if because I'm stretching my imagination a wee bit....
perhaps a squib load with the bullet near the muzzle, next round goes off , pressure spikes and both bullets leave the barrel but the gasses blow the case apart in the resulting explosion creates that vacuum in the millisecond before the bullets exit the barrel.
that probably makes no sense but I'm still mystified by the condition of that case LOL
 
Brian46 said:
It appears to be a normal firing pin strike, that should not be possible when the bolt is out of battery, which it clearly was because the lugs are still on the bolt carrier according to the op and the damage to the casing pictured
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That’s what I’m trying to wrap my head around. How did the firing pin strike that deep without the bolt in battery? All the evidence I can see ( with my limited knowledge of the platform) says it was not.

What I see in my mind, without a BCG here to play with, is the powder igniting, sending the case back into the bolt face. The cam pin is not contained so the bolt rotates (cam pin scarring receiver in the process) allowing more pin protrusion. When the BCG reaches the rear of the receiver, the inertia keeps the carrier moving but the bolt is stopped, forcing it to rotate to its normal position with the firing pin retracted as evidenced by the picture. If the BCG was removable you would see more damage to the upper receiver due to the cam pin being forced to rotate outside the race. Am I dreaming in technicolor?
 
wapitiwhacker said:
That’s what I’m trying to wrap my head around. How did the firing pin strike that deep without the bolt in battery? All the evidence I can see ( with my limited knowledge of the platform) says it was not.

What I see in my mind, without a BCG here to play with, is the powder igniting, sending the case back into the bolt face. The cam pin is not contained so the bolt rotates (cam pin scarring receiver in the process) allowing more pin protrusion. When the BCG reaches the rear of the receiver, the inertia keeps the carrier moving but the bolt is stopped, forcing it to rotate to its normal position with the firing pin retracted as evidenced by the picture. If the BCG was removable you would see more damage to the upper receiver due to the cam pin being forced to rotate outside the race. Am I dreaming in technicolor?
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Powder ignited how? Spontaneous combustion......
 
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