Greatest battle implement ever devised - SVT-40? Stg44? .. or M1 Garand

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chillyrabbit said:
I'm going to give you more grief Epoxy7 and Gele Donut..... This is not directed at you guys but more the idea that the Soviets post-WW2 couldn't invent/design a new rifle. Especially Kalashnikov, originally a simple soldier at first. But definitely mechanically inclined by working on several SMG designs, a replacement for the DP LMG and even trying to design a rifle in the SKS trials. Suffice to say he had some experience in working on firearm designs, and not just a mindless peasant that copied a STG-44.

These 2 blogs basically layout the case for why the AK-47 isn't a copy of the STG-44

Tanksarchive, Schmeisser vs Kalashnikov

The firearms blog: Rifle Paternity Test: Pinning Down The M1 Garand’s Influence On The AK

TL;DR Garand had a large influence on the AK design from the rotating bolt, and trigger assembly. Earlier Soviet rifle designs such as the SVT-40 have certain recognizable components/design influences on the AK-47 development.
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I never said it was a copy. By the way this speculation and arguments you are making were pre circa 2009. In 2009 Kalashnikov acknowledged the STG44 was an inspiration. No kidding. Funny how others argue it, still. In Mother Russia, Propaganda is fact!

Keep in mind the STG44 was used against the Russians for two years in combat. At the conclusion of the war the Superpowers went after as much German technology and expertise as they could. In 1945 the Russians took over the plant in Suhl STG44 rifles were studied, technical drawings/plans and factories were captured. Care to guess where the inventor of the STG44 was working in 1946? They transferred a team to the IIzmash plant. Where Kalashnikov was working on the AK. Must be a weird coincidence. Did the STG44 highly influence the design principles and a number of key design elements in the AK47? Absolutely it did. They simplified it, improved it for their philosophy and originally were't able to produce it in stamped steel (another STG44 feature). The later AKM model they made in stamped steel.
 
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JohnWick said:
Zippo Lighter ....
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steamy teabag said:
Or radio.
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Or radar. Or long range strategic bombers. Or the A-Bomb. Or the Aircraft carrier. Or the jeep.

There are many things that helped change the outcome of the war, but in this case, Steelgrey directed his comments towards these three rifles, so, for the sake of brevity, we should probably just confine our comments to that.
 
twyeh said:
The Stgw.44 is still used in combat after 70 years, this really says it all.

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stg44-syria.jpg

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stg.jpg
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Where do they buy their ammunition? Tradeex?
 
highlander said:
Or radar. Or long range strategic bombers. Or the A-Bomb. Or the Aircraft carrier. Or the jeep.

There are many things that helped change the outcome of the war, but in this case, Steelgrey directed his comments towards these three rifles, so, for the sake of brevity, we should probably just confine our comments to that.
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have to go with the M1.
 
Going to have to disagree with you Epoxy7, if that literal mountain of evidence doesn't move you nothing will.

In any case I'll readily admit the Soviets were inspired by the stg 44, since in 1943 after encountering their mk42 prototype they issued a directive to develop an intermediate cartridge to be used in a new submachine gun (future ak47) and carbine (future SKS). After that it was a lot of Soviet with American lend-lease know how that culminated in the AK 47 design.

Another blog post rebuttal to the schemisser and Kalashnikov argument, tank archives schemisser vs Kalashnikov

That show schemisser couldn't have any if much impact on the ak47 design except maybe consulting on stamping.
 
highlander said:
Or radar. Or long range strategic bombers. Or the A-Bomb. Or the Aircraft carrier. Or the jeep.

There are many things that helped change the outcome of the war, but in this case, Steelgrey directed his comments towards these three rifles, so, for the sake of brevity, we should probably just confine our comments to that.
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Actually, I'm good with this Lot's of good comments so far ...
 
I do like the Aircraft carrier.

I will submit RDX, Comp B, and or other forms or 'plastic explosives'

big step up from using nitrocellulose based, black powder, or gun cotton.

simple enough for an infantryman to learn how to rig up a simple charge, stable to carry, and packs a punch for its size and weight.
 
woodchopper said:
I do like the Aircraft carrier.

I will submit RDX, Comp B, and or other forms or 'plastic explosives'

big step up from using nitrocellulose based, black powder, or gun cotton.

simple enough for an infantryman to learn how to rig up a simple charge, stable to carry, and packs a punch for its size and weight.
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If this is open ended I’m gonna say GPS.
 
chillyrabbit said:
Going to have to disagree with you Epoxy7, if that literal mountain of evidence doesn't move you nothing will.

In any case I'll readily admit the Soviets were inspired by the stg 44, since in 1943 after encountering their mk42 prototype they issued a directive to develop an intermediate cartridge to be used in a new submachine gun (future ak47) and carbine (future SKS). After that it was a lot of Soviet with American lend-lease know how that culminated in the AK 47 design.

Another blog post rebuttal to the schemisser and Kalashnikov argument, tank archives schemisser vs Kalashnikov

That show schemisser couldn't have any if much impact on the ak47 design except maybe consulting on stamping.
Click to expand...

Let me sum up the rapid advancements in weapons, the USSR and USA space programs etc with this old time musical hit... Well, it was good old American know how, that's what, as provided by good
old Americans like Dr. Wernher von Braun!

 
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