Did you ever actually use your forward assist? - How'd that go?
- Thread starter steelgray
- Start date
I'm sure there were more than a few American GIs that would have loved to have that feature on the early M16 series of rifles used in the mud and crap of the South East Asian jungle action they were involved in.
Maybe not needed now so much as pretty much all the bugs have been worked out of the AR-15 operating system and it's evolved over several wars into a solid reliable platform used by many first rate troops but still.... S*** happens!!
Maybe not needed now so much as pretty much all the bugs have been worked out of the AR-15 operating system and it's evolved over several wars into a solid reliable platform used by many first rate troops but still.... S*** happens!!
your opinion is noted, and is wrong.
What I think he's trying to say is that removing the questionable cartrdige/obstruction is akin to towing your vehicle. Much like forcing your broken vehicle to start(or drive for the sake of comparison) is akin to forcing a questionable cartridge or unknown debris into the chamber.
There's another option. Stop doing press checks, they're pointless. If you insert your magazine with a tap and a tug, then I'm confident it is seated. I'm also confident that the engineers that designed the magazines and rifle have done their homework and both will function properly. If you insist on doing a press check then confirm a chambered round by looking at the position of the top round of the magazine prior to loading. Chamber a round, remove magazine and confirm the top round position has shifted to the other side. Re insert magazine(tap and tug) and move along. No need to risk inducing an OOB stoppage by playing with the charge handle. Confirm the magazine is inserted is almost zero risk.
Press checks are an administrative task, meaning they aren't done under stress or time constraints. Think this through... If press checks were so vital, then why does no one do it between each round fired? Why do you never see anyone at a match(or firefight) execute a reload, do a press check, then continue firing??? Do you trust the design of the rifle and magazine only when firing but not when doing an admin reload? That doesn't make sense.
Lubrication, lots of it. The carbon fouling is creating drag, eliminate that drag by keeping it well lubed.
Not trying to be a jerk, but who cares what happens with blanks, it's neither relevant for MIL folks or civilians.
Not sure what you mean? If you're referring to tossing a round by way of an immediate action drill(tap tug rack) then call it cheap insurance that could be solving any one of 4 possible causes of the stoppage. Forcing the bolt into battery without knowing what is causing the issue is a bad idea. There's also the issue of giving up fire control. Besides that, if the FA doesn't solve the problem, you're going back to the charge handle anyway. The FA COULD be faster, if it solves the problem. If the FA doesn't solve the problem then it was a waste of time and effort, and could result in a much more serious stoppage.
There isn't anyone I know of that teaches the use of the forward assist for anything. Again not trying to be a jerk, but what the CF teaches or the US Army is not a glowing example of best practice. Much of what is taught is simply institutional imbreeding and hand me down dogma.
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Lol u obviously dont participate in 3 gun much
Why do you think that? I shoot lots of 3 gun.
Punching the bolt into battery with manual force is not tantamount to creating an issue, or making an existing issue any worse.
Although it stubbornly persists as doctrine in the CAF manual of arms, there are instances outside of the press check that this function is useful. Silent bolt closure has been mentioned, and (as dubious as its utility seems) this provision is common amongst a few military rifles and not just the AR15 (ie: the button on the tip of NZDF's Steyr charging handles). In extreme cold weather conditions, firing a rifle creates a dramatic temperature variance between the bolt face and barrel extension, from which condensation and subsequent freezing will result. If this effect can be overcome by pressing the bolt home its final mm of travel, it's worthwhile.
I concede that operating the forward assist should be in response to a situation, rather than a drill to be carried out mindlessly. To answer the OP's question, I have had to use it!
Although it stubbornly persists as doctrine in the CAF manual of arms, there are instances outside of the press check that this function is useful. Silent bolt closure has been mentioned, and (as dubious as its utility seems) this provision is common amongst a few military rifles and not just the AR15 (ie: the button on the tip of NZDF's Steyr charging handles). In extreme cold weather conditions, firing a rifle creates a dramatic temperature variance between the bolt face and barrel extension, from which condensation and subsequent freezing will result. If this effect can be overcome by pressing the bolt home its final mm of travel, it's worthwhile.
I concede that operating the forward assist should be in response to a situation, rather than a drill to be carried out mindlessly. To answer the OP's question, I have had to use it!
#### DOES happen.
Press checks have saved people from shouldering the rifle and hearing click and racking in a new round
Not a lot. Say less then 5%, but when it saves you time on the clock it saves you time.
Ive seen it with rifles and pistols. (Original M&P was notorious for it)
As an RO I have seen countless shooter click on an empty chamber.
Not you? GREAT.
But it does happen.
I've had to use it. Basically a unique situation where the inside of the chamber was fine, but the inside of the recover had gotten a thin layer of dusk after locking open on a previous magazine - just enough where the bolt didn't quite have the velocity to totally push the top round out of the magazine and up the feed ramp into the chamber. After a normal IA failed, I could see that's where it was getting hung up and decided it was safe to just try the FA instead, which gave it the little extra shove it needed to get into battery. The DI system did it's work, loosened up the gunk, and the rifle then functioned as normal after a few rounds.
It's the only time I've ever really had to use it but it convinced me it has a place.
It's the only time I've ever really had to use it but it convinced me it has a place.
Joka basically made my point.
You may think my point made no sense... but I fail to see how removing the mag after chambering a round, looking at the orientation of the top and then reinserting it on a closed bolt followed by tapping and tucking on it is less strenuous then checking the chamber and pushing the FA once with ur thumb.
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Because it works in the light or in the dark. It can be verified with sight and in a tactile manner. It makes no difference whether the gun is hot or cold. And last but most importantly you are not screwing with the operating mechanism.
Really?! I personally disagree with your statement.
Maybe you just can't maintain your kit properly.
Maybe you just can't maintain your kit properly.
Not always an easy task when you're living in sand, dirt, sludge and pooh dust.
Or when you're in the arctic.
I'll take a forward assist over "just keep it lubed". YMMV.
User the forward assist on my issued rifle several times during both tours in Afghanistan...
That poo dust will get everywhere and cause all sorts of #### that will make the best maintained rifles jam in some weird way. Fall into a dirty wadi or freshly irrigated grape/poppy/pot field and you will need to use that forward assist at some point during the day if you find yourself on a two way range.
Press checks is what is being tought at all levels in the CAF, including the "pointy tip of the spear" guys
Just for fun... How many the "FA is useless" crowd does stuff like scanning&breathing after shooting at paper targets on a sunday morning and going back home to clean their AR for a longer amount of time than they spent shooting it ?
I'll keep my FA, because it has proved its utility in very rough time and I will also keep doing presschecks
That poo dust will get everywhere and cause all sorts of #### that will make the best maintained rifles jam in some weird way. Fall into a dirty wadi or freshly irrigated grape/poppy/pot field and you will need to use that forward assist at some point during the day if you find yourself on a two way range.
Press checks is what is being tought at all levels in the CAF, including the "pointy tip of the spear" guys
Just for fun... How many the "FA is useless" crowd does stuff like scanning&breathing after shooting at paper targets on a sunday morning and going back home to clean their AR for a longer amount of time than they spent shooting it ?
I'll keep my FA, because it has proved its utility in very rough time and I will also keep doing presschecks
The forward assist was tested extensively prior to being accepted. Attached is a passage from 5.56 Timeline
"Retired Army Colonel E.B. Crossman files “Report of Investigation of M16 Rifle in Combat” with the Ichord Subcommittee. Comprised of 250 personal interviews with Army and Marine units in Vietnam, it reports that roughly 50 percent of the troops have experienced serious malfunctions with their XM16E1 rifle, of which 90 percent were failures to extract. The cause of these malfunctions was not determined. Other observations are that: 1) The bolt closure device is used frequently enough to justify the Army’s insistance upon this product improvement;...."
I used it a few time on my C7, oil does not always clear the fine crud out. When I used the C1 it had a heavier return spring and the bb would just slam forward. Only once I had enough crude in the breach, that the FN did not close. On the C7 being more small and a lighter spring it is needed at times.
