Let's see some pic's of your SxS's & O/U's

Thanks John, there's more to come. As you know, good cases are much harder to find than good guns. A fairly high percentage of the best guns are still mated up with their original case , but because many of these were part of a set (pairs, trios) some were separated from their case when split up. Of course the job of the case is to protect the gun, they typically received little care or attention and many perished along the way doing their job, leaving a well preserved gun behind. I've been buying, selling, trading cases for only ten - twelve years or so, wish I had started years earlier. I've been known to buy a gun that I had no interest in just to get the case that it was in or to buy a case out from under a gun that I didn't want. As you know, once in awhile I end up with far too many cases and do a purge, almost always followed shortly by finding the perfect gun to compliment that terrific case that I just sold. I even buy junk cases if they have usable components like handle, latch, straps, etc, I can use these parts to restore another case.
The case for the Westley Richards hammer gun was pretty beat up, but after some TLC it is the perfect companion for the gun now and pretty unique in it's layout and with the original ammunition tray. The oak and leather case for the Grant has the original correct early label ( no 'and sons' ) and is almost impossible to find, much more scarce than the very scarce gun.
 
James Dalziel Dougall

Ashcroft, your Stephen Grant side-lever made my heart sing. What a marvellous merging of engineering and artistry!

Your 1873-vintage Westley Richards is a real delight - it still has pinfire styling, merged with the new-for-1873 Deeley and Edge patent fore-end release (Patent 1422 of 1873). Is the patent number marked on the rotating bar of the release? The original patent specification illustrated in Vol. 2 of Crudgington & Baker seems to be a WR-type crab-joint fore-end, so it might have first appeared on WR guns? There were still pinfires being offered in the early 1870s, though very few in proportion to centre-fires. Habits die hard!

I have a similarly-actioned Westley Richards top-lever pinfire that dates to 1866, also converted to centre-fire. The maker's records have the dates when the gun was ordered and delivered, but no reference is made to the conversion, so I don't know if WR performed the conversion. It is very neatly done, with rebounding locks, and the pinfire hammers are retained. The engraving pattern is similar in design and coverage, but not as finely executed as in your later gun, which is in keeping with the times. It has the earlier cross key fastener for the fore-end, mounted in silver. I will try and take some pictures when the sun decides to show up.

I also have its predecessor, a Westley Richards pull-top-lever made on the patent No. 2506 of 1862, which I've dated to 1865. It is also a bar-in-wood with crab joint. This action is encountered much more infrequently than the later lateral top-lever - in fact it is the only one I've ever seen. It takes much more thumb pressure to activate the release, so I'm not surprised the move was made to the laterally-swinging lever.

As to the Dougall, I've estimated the date of manufacture of No. 1750 to be around 1864, from when he opened his London premises as the barrels are so marked. If it wasn't for that clue, I might have dated the gun somewhat earlier. We'll never know if the gun was made in Glasgow, London, or in Birmingham on order - I haven't been able to trace the actioner's initials 'JMC' (on the bottom plate) from known workmen in the trade, so I'm guessing the work might have been done in-house, either in Glasgow or London. The gun has London proofs.

I have a second Dougall 16-bore pinfire, No. 1486, with a standard unsigned double-bite screw grip under-lever action, which I've estimated to have been made around 1863 or so. The rib is unmarked, so it was probably sold from the Glasgow address. It would have been a cheaper option to the maker's Lockfast. It also has London proofs.
 
Well Pinfire you made me pull the WR out and examine it closely. Again. No patent date or use numbers on the Deeley & Edge forend release, not really enough room on the edge. This was an in house generated patent which made the company a great deal of money while it was in force, as did the Anson release shortly after. These two quickly became the standard forend releases on most better guns and remain so today of course. The Deeley and Edge forend patent #1422 was 19 April 1873, according to WR records my gun was completed 21 August same year, so this would be one of the earliest uses of this forend fastener although it isn't mentioned in the ledger.
Westley Richards used a two piece firing pin with the pieces angled to each other so as to provide a horizontal firing pin stroke from a more or less vertical downward hammer blow for their conversions, thus enabling little or no modifications to lockwork or hammers. They continued to use this system for newly manufactured centre fire guns through many years, possibly extending past 1900. Many owners believe they own a conversion but most of the later guns were made as you see them today. The true indicator is if the breech face of the barrels show that the pin slots have been filled. My gun is recorded in the WR ledger as 'pin' and as you can see, the fences and engraving are not shaped to accommodate the firing pin installation. The pin slots on my gun were so carefully filled that you need (well I do) a magnifying glass to see it.
 
Well I thought that I would try to breathe a little life back into this fascinating thread but so far there seems to be little interest. I've been working my way through the thread 10 or 20 pages at a time right from the beginning and I'm now at page 80 out of 189. Truly a treat to see at least the pictures of so many treasured guns. Anyway, press on!
I'll start with the smallest and the newest, an E.J. Churchill Regal XXV 20 gauge from 1959. Very light, very quick, this is a dream grouse getter for many. All original, condition well over 90% in all aspects, this was their second highest grade boxlock.
 
From the smallest to the biggest, a Westley Richards 10 bore from 1882, patent use #4277 on the original single bite Anson and Deeley hammerless action. This big girl has 32" barrels, weighs a svelte 9 1/2 pounds and handles like the stately well balanced gun that it is. Butt stock is a very well done replacement, craftsman unknown, the rest of the gun is mostly original and well used. It is an absolute goose crusher with 1 1/4 oz of #1 Bismuth ahead of 4 1/4 dram loads. This is another of those never ending projects that got completely out of control and I'm now hopelessly upside down financially on it but I'm not complaining. No case. Need one. Must accomodate 32" barrels with dolls head, can rebuild if necessary.
 
Ashcroft.

Don’t imagine the lack of posts to represent a lack of interested viewership. Having posted many guns here over the years, sometimes it takes a while. But people are enjoying your posts.
 
This thread will live forever...lol...always an interest in sxs shotguns...my son is 2 years old and I’m sure in a couple decades he will be on here looking @ these pictures like I do @ least once a week.
 
Thanks for the encouragement guys, I feel better now. I know lots of owner/collectors of English doubles in BC and Alberta, some own a couple, a couple own up to 20-30, many of the guns are very rare, some are probably one of a kind, certainly in Canada. For some reason, in BC at least, very high grade modern guns seem to be scarce other than on a trap or skeet range. And strangely, out of perhaps a dozen or more of these fine gentlemen that I personally know the best and consider friends ( not to be confused with Facebook "friends") none are on this site.
 
Yes, thanks to all who share photos of their guns on this thread.

It might surprise some of you that I can, and do, appreciate guns that are not pinfires.

A case in point is John Browning's excellent design, the Superposed. This particular field-grade example was built by the Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium, in 1930. With a serial number less than 500, it was likely made in the second week of production.

hOZyjh5.jpg
 
gunsaholic said:
Ah yes, the superposed. I have a 20 gauge from the other end of the spectrum as far as manufacturing date. It belonged to my uncle. It is the best fitting over/under that I ever handled.
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Brian I have an early 50’s 20 gauge in my safe and feel the same about it. Fantastic gun.
 
I've had two different early superposed 20's and they are a natural fit and a great shooter for me as well. If an unmolested one with 28" tubes came my way today I guess I might have one again. Oh yeah, I know I said I wasn't buying guns any more. Oh well, I'm trying to turn my life around.
 
That is a very nice piece of wood on a Grade 1 Superposed.
I think that a long tang, round knob, Superposed Lightning 20, choked IC/Mod is among the best upland guns ever built.
Lots of good designs have come along since the Superposed was developed, but it sure holds up well as a sweet handling gun.
 
Ashcroft said:
My turn I guess. This one is a T E Mortimer (Edinburgh) 16 gauge from 1893 and it's kind of like King Arthur's axe which had received only four new handles and three new heads, 'as new'. First, in 1955 Russell Sporting Goods sent it to England and had NEW barrels installed with 2 3/4" chambers. The top rib is engraved ' NEW BARRELS BY RUSSELL SPORTING GOODS, CALGARY' and the barrels are marked on the bottom ' MADE IN ENGLAND'. About 2000 Elmer Rinas ( then of Mission, BC, now passed on unfortunately) restocked it with a nice typical piece of Edenbank Farm, Sardis BC walnut. About ten years ago I had Ralf Martini do some work on it and he reblued the furniture and sent it to Turnbull in the US who case coloured it. So it's my 'new' 126 year old gun, it's been loved a lot.
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Wow I had no idea that Russell’s was around even in the 1950’s....my dad actually even worked there for a short time when I was a kid.
 
I really like the Superposed. They are undervalued today in my mind given the quality. I had two mint examples I sold a number of years back to invest in a new trap gun. I don't regret doing that though there are times I would love to be able to reach in the safe and take them to the range. One was a Lightning Grade Broadway Trap w/30" bbls choked F over IM, straight comb stock w/ the classic later model squared wide forend(beavertail?). The other was near identical though it was a gun only available on the european market and was a limited edition 50th Anniversary John Moses Special Broadway Trap w/30" bbls choked F over M, nicely figured oil finished wood, and the words John Moses Special engraved into the sides of the receiver in gold, the edition# in gold on bottom of the receiver and the Buckmark logo on the rear of the receiver sides and trigger guard in gold as well. My memory tells me it was #723/750 and came in a really nice matching logo embossed hard traditional take down style luggage case. When I acquired it, it had one box fired through it. The original owner won it in 1982 in a raffle fundraiser at a gun club he belonged to while stationed in Germany with the RCAF. It was hard to pin down a value on it and get much interest in it at the time because of it's european origin but I put a whopping price tag on it, probably double what it was really worth and advertised it in trap & field magazine and it sold fairly quickly then ending up (legally) to a gentleman in Oklahoma
 
Crap, sorry guys, I posted the pictures of my 1879 vintage Westley Richards best A&D gun to the wrong forum. Don't have a clue how to switch it! Some people should never be trusted with a computer. Or a gun.
 
the spank said:
I really like the Superposed. They are undervalued today in my mind given the quality. I had two mint examples I sold a number of years back to invest in a new trap gun. I don't regret doing that though there are times I would love to be able to reach in the safe and take them to the range. One was a Lightning Grade Broadway Trap w/30" bbls choked F over IM, straight comb stock w/ the classic later model squared wide forend(beavertail?). The other was near identical though it was a gun only available on the european market and was a limited edition 50th Anniversary John Moses Special Broadway Trap w/30" bbls choked F over M, nicely figured oil finished wood, and the words John Moses Special engraved into the sides of the receiver in gold, the edition# in gold on bottom of the receiver and the Buckmark logo on the rear of the receiver sides and trigger guard in gold as well. My memory tells me it was #723/750 and came in a really nice matching logo embossed hard traditional take down style luggage case. When I acquired it, it had one box fired through it. The original owner won it in 1982 in a raffle fundraiser at a gun club he belonged to while stationed in Germany with the RCAF. It was hard to pin down a value on it and get much interest in it at the time because of it's european origin but I put a whopping price tag on it, probably double what it was really worth and advertised it in trap & field magazine and it sold fairly quickly then ending up (legally) to a gentleman in Oklahoma
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Nice guns Frank!
I've had four Broadways over the years and still have two of them, they're a high quality piece of equipment for sure! I heard some guys don't like the wide rib for doubles but I never found that a problem, guess I'm doing something wrong maybe.... The later Supers with the new style extractor extensions had some problems with cracking and if you didn't catch the small cracks before they broke you run the risk of having the unbroken part of the ejector getting lost in the grass somewhere behind you and then you need an ejector and an extension instead of just the extension! The biggest problem is that although the new extractor extensions are not really expensive, they do have to be hand fitted as do most all of the parts on a Superposed.
Both of the guns I presently have are choked full and full, something that a lot of people seem to have trouble getting their heads around but that's how Browning did these trap guns for the most part. One of the other Broadways I had was improved mod and full and the other had Briley thin wall tubes installed, made me wonder why they bothered with IM on the bottom instead of just going full but I expect it was requested by some customers.
 
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