- Location
- Western Manitoba
Apologies - my comment was derailing this thread - can't delete post - so, started a new thread...
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Zastava 458 questions
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- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Enter arguably the most famous M98, Selby’s .416 Rigby built on a standard Mauser military action, which was literally shot out of its bore. It’s still shooting til this day with the present owners, and went on an elephant hunt not so long ago again. Not saying the original M98 is good for .375s and .416 Rigby’s, sharing for academic considerations. I’d have zero concerns owning and shooting a modern steel Zastava .375 and will never shoot another Norinco M14. So very much a to each their own and won’t call anyone silly for being concerned.
having used a brevex magnum action rifle and a fn commercial regular action i never felt silly or in danger to each his own.
imagine the heresy we used in africa 460 wea mag in mark 5 ... how crazy we have been and how lucky im to still be alive ...
PS the brevec action were made in france and as kid i visisted few gunsmiths that were working on them cant recall if my dad bring me to the factory that was not far from paris at the time.
Rigby built a few like that post-war. I would never have thought it possible, but it should be noted that the .416 operates at relatively low pressures. Probably on a par with the neutered American loaded 7x57 & 8x57. If I could get my hands on one of the FN mausers modified for the .375/300 H&H I would use it, no hesitation. In fact, I wish I could stumble on one because I have a hankering for a .300 H&H.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Agreed on a nice FN H&H for sure, fine taste.
Academic point on bolt thrust, the bolt thrust from the .416 Rigby is actually higher than the .375 H&H despite running at a lower pressure, due to surface area and brass flow / flex. The larger the case head of course the more area for pressure to work on, but equally as important is the fact bolt thrust increases exponentially with an increase in the base diameter of brass cartridges as brass is soft and flows / flexes under pressure readily. A large case head is less supportive and “bows” out against the face of the bolt more and exerts more thrust than a smaller one, in which the brass supports the pressure more easily. The .416 Rigby is just about the highest bolt thrusting cartridge housed in an M98, and likely by good margin.
Academic point on bolt thrust, the bolt thrust from the .416 Rigby is actually higher than the .375 H&H despite running at a lower pressure, due to surface area and brass flow / flex. The larger the case head of course the more area for pressure to work on, but equally as important is the fact bolt thrust increases exponentially with an increase in the base diameter of brass cartridges as brass is soft and flows / flexes under pressure readily. A large case head is less supportive and “bows” out against the face of the bolt more and exerts more thrust than a smaller one, in which the brass supports the pressure more easily. The .416 Rigby is just about the highest bolt thrusting cartridge housed in an M98, and likely by good margin.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
I reckon a Siamese Mauser re-barreled in 45-70 gives a tad more bolt thrust than the Rigby when loaded to 40,000 psi with 500 gr bullets. My old Siamese unit from years back was a heavy hitter using loads recommended for the Ruger No 1. T'was a heavy hitter on me shoulder as well in a 9 lb rifle.
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It may seem like it but it wont. A 45-70 has an internal base of about .458 dia. ( about the same as a 375hh case).Its not the external rim diameter, And the 416 is about 50k pressure
416 rigby at 50k using the outside base size is 13575 pounds bolt thrust
416 rigby at 40k using the outside base size is 10964 pounds bolt thrust
a 45-70 at 40k using the out side base size is 8000 pounds of bolt thrust
all numbers are high as i should use internal base size for calculations.
also in theory the way i calculated it would be the maximum numbers possible to reach then other factors come into play to reduce those numbers such as chamber finish, dry or wet case, and oil in the chamber, shape of the case
416 rigby at 50k using the outside base size is 13575 pounds bolt thrust
416 rigby at 40k using the outside base size is 10964 pounds bolt thrust
a 45-70 at 40k using the out side base size is 8000 pounds of bolt thrust
all numbers are high as i should use internal base size for calculations.
also in theory the way i calculated it would be the maximum numbers possible to reach then other factors come into play to reduce those numbers such as chamber finish, dry or wet case, and oil in the chamber, shape of the case
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the one i had is still in the yukon and from what i ve heard no problem so far.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
sounds like the one I bought a few months back at auction
Zastava in 458, marked "made in Yugoslavia" so that helps date it. Very deep blue and heavily polished and has a second recoil lug on the barrel.
I can't comment specifically on the 458, but I have one in 375 that's my go to hunting rifle. I've never had a single problem with it, although if I had to do it again I'd get the CZ 550 just for the larger mag capacity and length(can't go above SAAMI COAL) As it stands though, I lob 300gr TSX's at 3/4 MOA so you know...can't really complain.
In short, you're not going to find anything chronically wrong with these rifles. If anything I feel like their manufacturing QA/QC is better than north american made stuff. Any issues will be due to the individual gun having a problem, not the line or model.
saskgunowner101
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- near Prince Albert
My Zastava 458 has been parked for the winter, but IIRC, working the bolt gently, it fudges up once in awhile. Reload like a bear is about to have you for dinner, and there's never a problem. Ejection isn't anything to write home about either, but 3-4 feet away is good enough I suppose.
I have one in .458 and .375. The 375 is my go to hunting rifle. The .458 is occasionally fun to to shoot, but kicks like a mule. I've never had feeding issues with either. I've always wanted to open the .458 win to a .458 Lott, but have neither found the reamer, nor am I certain it would work easily....
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
With the weight of the M70 you would have an utterly savage recoiler with it as a .458 Lott. I shoot a handful of big stuff and would politely decline shooting a Lotted Zastava, likely by answering with a question and then changing the subject.
Aside from not needing the Mauser bolt face to be altered, would that be another reason for the .425 Westley Richards having a rebated rim, to reduce bolt thrust?
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Amen Bro. My first 458 Winchester was built on a VZ24 by Fred Breitwiser in Kitchener, Ontario. It was very handy, but a bit too light, especially with 75 gr of Ball C2 and 500 gr bullets.
It ended up in the NWT, Yellowknife iirc, shortly after I came to Whitehorse, where it almost immediately accounted for a huge bison.
The second one was built by Bevan King and weighs close to ten pounds empty.
Ted
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Is it the barrel profile on the Zastava that makes the 458 models so light?
I've seen a few 416 taylor customs on the action. I wonder if you would be poorly balanced if you had a heavy enough barrel profile to get it in the 9-10 pound range.
I've had a few of them in eurotrash calibers throughout the last few years, never had a stellar experience but nothing awful either. Pretty solid for what they are.
I always flirt with buying a 375 H&H or 458 wm
I've seen a few 416 taylor customs on the action. I wonder if you would be poorly balanced if you had a heavy enough barrel profile to get it in the 9-10 pound range.
I've had a few of them in eurotrash calibers throughout the last few years, never had a stellar experience but nothing awful either. Pretty solid for what they are.
I always flirt with buying a 375 H&H or 458 wm
