Rifle Myths and Mysteries

Sharps '74

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I'm already hating myself for suggesting this, but since people enjoyed the other "myth" thread I started, why not one on rifle "myths" ..... ? I'll start off with one written up by Canadian gun writer Terry Wieland in the October 2018 issue of "Handloader" magazine.

He writes about an incident with a Ruger No. 1 in .308 where the forend split and locked the action up tight. It took the efforts of a gunsmith to open the action as brass had flowed into every available crevice. This was the 15th round of 15 rds of the ammo in question, so no remaining rds were left for examination.

The case could not have been double charged as it would have over flowed. Bullets were 165 gr, but even had they been 180 gr, the load would have been within safe limits. He doesn't name the powder used.

He goes on about a similar case where he was shooting a .270 Winchester with 130 gr bullets under a "slow burning powder" (likely 4831 or 4350). After five or six shots, his spotter called high and right. He fired a total of twelve rds. Examining his brass later, he discovered one with the primer blown. He found the primer in the mag well and the primer pocket was much enlarged. No damage occurred to the rifle, no excessive muzzle blast or recoil. Bolt lift was normal and the case reseated in the chamber effortlessly.

No remaining bullets miked .284 and he tried chambering such a rd without success. His bullets were bulk "factory seconds". He miked a handful and all were .277 in diameter.

I'm starting to hear the strains of the theme from the "Twilight Zone" .....

He mentions a certain ballistician, Dr. Brownell who was working with a .244 Remington which gave a sudden pressure spike with a Speer 105 gr. The Dr. flew to Lewiston, Idaho and the Speer ballisticians determined that the bullet used had a different configuration with sidewalls that gripped the rifling with more resistance, hence the pressure spike.

Conclusion: Just because a load is proven safe with one particular bullet type of the same weight, that does not equate to a safe load with a bullet of different configuration or gilding material such as a solid copper bullet.

Years ago, I remember when the .243 had a reputation for pressure spikes and many people avoided it for that reason. I think that Dr. Brownell's experience suggests the possible cause.


OK - there's my contribution. Comments and/or another "Rifle Myth & Mystery" ... ?
 
How about the one where the bullet continues to accelerate after it leaves the end of the barrel


Only this gun does that :)

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Good thread idea.

Like when bullets "go to sleep" and become more accurate at distances beyond 100 yards.

I've heard this from a very good BPCR shooter. He is convinced that his 550 gr 45-70 bullets do not stabilize or group for sh!t until past 200 yds.

So I asked him to 'splain why I'm able to put three bullets in a clover leaf from prone x-stix with my Shiloh #1 Sporter in 45-70 at 100 yds.

He had no answer .....
 
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Hey Sharps '74,

I may have the answer to why the last round of Mr. Wieland's .308 produced such a spike in pressure. Good chance the last round he fired was the 1st one he handloaded and put at the rear of the cartridge box. If he forgot to empty the powder chamber in his powder measure he may have loaded that first shell with a different much faster burning powder from the previous shells he loaded, or perhaps a mixture of the two powders? This exact situation happened to an old hunting partner of mine, and he badly damaged the rifle and almost lost the sight in one eye. I am just speculating on an answer, but my friends mistake has had me double checking my powder measure contents for 40 years. WK
 
Hey Sharps '74,

I may have the answer to why the last round of Mr. Wieland's .308 produced such a spike in pressure. Good chance the last round he fired was the 1st one he handloaded and put at the rear of the cartridge box. If he forgot to empty the powder chamber in his powder measure he may have loaded that first shell with a different much faster burning powder from the previous shells he loaded, or perhaps a mixture of the two powders? This exact situation happened to an old hunting partner of mine, and he badly damaged the rifle and almost lost the sight in one eye. I am just speculating on an answer, but my friends mistake has had me double checking my powder measure contents for 40 years. WK

This is a great bit of info/reminder for all re-loaders.
 
If memory serves, J.O.C once wrote of having a Springfield sporter firing as he bolted a round into the chamber and nearly ripping off his right thumb.
Oddly enough I've never heard of any other incident like that.
He blamed it on a broken/jammed 2 piece firing pin as I recall.
Old old Outdoor Life article from the 50's.
 
Hey Sharps '74,

I may have the answer to why the last round of Mr. Wieland's .308 produced such a spike in pressure. Good chance the last round he fired was the 1st one he handloaded and put at the rear of the cartridge box. If he forgot to empty the powder chamber in his powder measure he may have loaded that first shell with a different much faster burning powder from the previous shells he loaded, or perhaps a mixture of the two powders? This exact situation happened to an old hunting partner of mine, and he badly damaged the rifle and almost lost the sight in one eye. I am just speculating on an answer, but my friends mistake has had me double checking my powder measure contents for 40 years. WK

I read what the OP wrote and I also thought: pistol powder in a rifle case. Great explanation on how it potentially got there. Or put more simply, the guy who loaded that round did not notice that there was a small amount of faster powder left in the hopper when he poured in the rifle powder.
 
[/QUOTE]He goes on about a similar case where he was shooting a .270 Winchester with 130 gr bullets under a "slow burning powder" (likely 4831 or 4350). After five or six shots, his spotter called high and right. He fired a total of twelve rds. Examining his brass later, he discovered one with the primer blown. He found the primer in the mag well and the primer pocket was much enlarged. No damage occurred to the rifle, no excessive muzzle blast or recoil. Bolt lift was normal and the case reseated in the chamber effortlessly.

[/QUOTE]

I once had a box of factory Remington .308 corlokt 180s that spit out primers into my mag along with brass through the bolt(assumes being it was in my right cheek?) this was a total of three rounds. First one wasn’t noticed, except the hindsight thought made me wonder if the sound was off, that brass was ejected with no off feelings.

The second one also ejected with ease, but this is where I noticed something off.... couldn’t put my finger on it , but impact was way off. (Found after the next shot and inspection the primer was almost completely flat, but loose to the point it would spin in the pocket.

Third one is where I quit there when I shot and had pain in my right cheek, it was behind the bolt, I didn’t pull any real debris out of my cheek, but it was red. Maybe some powder burn or something?? The primer was sitting in the mag well. It was two primers popped, one still in loose.

It was odd. I tried getting a hold of Remington a free times, but admittedly gave up quick each time on hold. I knocked out the bullets and oiled the primers and threw away the rest.
 
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It does happen far too often that more of the components you used before just aren't available so you have to buy whatever it is you can get, then work up a new load and hope the new stuff doesn't contain any awful surprises.
 
Hey Sharps '74,

I may have the answer to why the last round of Mr. Wieland's .308 produced such a spike in pressure. Good chance the last round he fired was the 1st one he handloaded and put at the rear of the cartridge box. If he forgot to empty the powder chamber in his powder measure he may have loaded that first shell with a different much faster burning powder from the previous shells he loaded, or perhaps a mixture of the two powders? This exact situation happened to an old hunting partner of mine, and he badly damaged the rifle and almost lost the sight in one eye. I am just speculating on an answer, but my friends mistake has had me double checking my powder measure contents for 40 years. WK

Two summers ago, a CAS pal's Uberti '73 rifle in .45 Colt blew up on the first rd of the stage. This was the 3rd or 4th stage of the day. His wife was on site watching this.

The side plate was badly bent and the bolt flew back, hitting his safety glasses and breaking a cheek bone. The bolt carried on it's merry way, narrowly missing my wife. We found the bolt several yards away.

He was taken to emerg where he refused a pain killer. He has a high pain threshold. He was back within the hour to finish the match! He said it was like getting bucked off as horse. You have to get right back on it to lose the fear.

Analysis:

He was shooting BP. He MAY have inadvertently NOT emptied the hopper from the TiTe Group that had been the last powder that had been in the hopper. That meant he would have had a duplex load. He denies this as he was shooting a compressed load of BP and a pistol charge of Tite Group would have over flowed the case.

The rifle has since been rebuilt and soldiers on.
 
These are the realm of fiction carried by some as fact, but fit the subject,

How about the old one about shooting across water, and it pulling the bullet down?

Or any number of misunderstandings about slope and apparent drop? Can’t tell you how many mountain clients tell me a mix of bizarre theories, some of them ex-Marines and the like.

Or that heavier bullets “hit harder”, when often the opposite is actually true in most scenarios from a given chambering?

Or that slow (sub-2200fps) and heavy (250grs+) rounds are some form of stopping rifle, that will drop dangerous game and bears where they stand?
 
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