.223 good for 500yard max??

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swiffer88

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HI,

i'd like to know if the.223 rifle would be very good for precision shooting at maximum 500 yards.. I want to buy my first rifle and not sure i should go .223 or .308.. some guys told me to start with .223 to get the feel of shooting but didnt say about the precision.. I dont want to get a rifle and have to change it the next week because I made a bad move..


thanks
 
A .223 bullet will get blown around by the slightest wind more than a .308 bullet. The .223 will do at 500, but a .308 would be better. If felt recoil is an issue, the .223 has, of course, far less. Even when a .308 is loaded down.
 
I'm not an expert in this area by no means and I'm sure some of the other guys will chime in here anytime now with some valuable information. But from what I've read on this site and others, it seems alot of guys shoot 500+ with the 223 without problems (other than the wind blowing it all around). Some actually like shooting the 223 at long range as it "teaches" them about the effects of wind, etc which can then be carried over to larger caliber shooting down the road. If you reload, the 223 can certainly go a great distance.

As already stated, if this is your first rifle you should consider the recoil factor. A 223 would certainly be a better learner rifle than the 308 if you want to get into precision. You wouldn't want to develop a flinch or something starting off or find that shooting is just too uncomfortable over extended range sessions. Not counting the cost factor of the rounds.

Good luck on the new purchase!
 
Those highpower guys seem to prefer the 223 over the 308, even at 600 yards.

Once you get out past 300 yards its best to use heavier bullets. 75 grains and over. I would get a barrel with a twist in the 1/7 - 1/8 range. You may be able to get away with a 1/9 but its no guarantee.
 
sunray said:
A .223 bullet will get blown around by the slightest wind more than a .308 bullet. The .223 will do at 500, but a .308 would be better. If felt recoil is an issue, the .223 has, of course, far less. Even when a .308 is loaded down.
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Not at all! With a fast twist barrel, it should be perfectly adequate for 500. Actually, ballistics and drift should be nearly identical to the 308, with the right component selection. A 69-80 grain VLD bullet driven at 2800 fps will have the same or slightly better BC than a 308 shooting 150-180 grain bullets, and at similar speeds.
 
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Whatever the 308 can do, the 223 can match with 1/3 the recoil.

Get a Savage or Stevens with their 9 twist. They will stabilize the 75grAmax no problem. We had no issue shooting to 1000yds right beside the 308's.

We were popping clays from 500 to 650yds which is sub MOA.

The furthest I have seen this combo shot ACCURATELY from a Savage 12FV was a smidge over 1400yds. Far enough?

8 twist for 80gr Amax. 7 twist for 90gr Bergers. I am playing with the 75gr amax and am very impressed. See my post on this forum.

Will these 22 bullets get bounced around in the wind? YES, way more then a better 6, 6.5, 7mm but no worse then the 308.

There are 'hero' 308 loads that are superior but then there are also 'hero' 223 loads.

When both are shot at SAAMI velocities, they are essentially a wash out to 1000yds. Arguably, the 223 is better...

The Aussies shoot the 223 alot and have no issue keeping up with the 308's down under.

The F(TR) Americans tend to favor the 308 more saying it bucks the wind substantially better. But then some run at 'hero' levels.

The 223 dominates US service rifle at all distances.

Jerry
 
Two weeks ago Tony B won the Mons Club Championship with a .223. He was the only TR shooter that used a .223 while everyone else shot .308's. This shoot was 2 sighters and 15 on score at 1000 yards, 3 times.
You need a fast twist barrel, 1:9 might work with 80 gr bullets but a 1:8 would be better.
One of the reasons TR shooters go with the .308 is because the DCRA took the .223 shooters out of the Bisley Agg a few years back (back in now, I believe).
Unless you are looking to shoot in International Competitions like Palma and Bisley from the start. Go with a .223. A .223 with 80 gr bullets is not disadvantaged over a .308 shooting 155 gr bullets out to 1000 yards. Cheaper to reload, less recoil.
 
The 1:9 I have won't shoot 80s. It is just fine with 75s. Other rifles might be different. I would suggest a 1:8, if a custom barrel is being fitted. The 1:7 is used in military barrels because of the long tracer bullet, you don't need it for commercial projectiles. If a .223 is going to be used for long range shooting a longer barrel is a good idea, because muzzle velocities can be maximized.
A .223 with 55s will get blown around at much shorter ranges, of course.
 
One of my boss at work is a 5 time Queen medal winner and They shoot out to 500m. Using just 3.4X optics, 1-7 twist government profile barrels issued rifles. So a HBAR be a wee bit better. BTW using 62 grn, 77 be much better. I know I shot out to 500 yards using the same setup. Just takes practice....
 
I shoot 223, out to 1000 - Savage with a 1 in 9, shoot 75 Gr Amax, 2950 FPS. Since I'm still learing the wind, have a bit of an issue, but had a 73.6 a couple of weeks ago - and yes, Tony did win with a 223.
 
The one thing people forgot to ask is if you reload.If you don't, finding factory 69-80 grain bullets in .223 can be tough.In which case you will have to shoot 55-62 grain bullets which are relatively common.These lighter bullets are pretty good out to 500m.Anything past that and they open up pretty good.
What will you be shooting them through and what kind of accuracy do you want?
 
I have occassionaly tested both 308 and 223 on the same day at the same distance. 223 loaded with the Sierra 80 and 308 loaded with the Sierra 155 or the A-MAx 155. The wind drift of the 223 was slightly less.

A Savage or Stevens might have a twist slightly faster than 1:9. I was involved with the conversion of these rifles from 1:12 to 1:9. At the time they were afraid it was a "radical" twist that would not be understood by shooters. The prototype was 1:9 and it would not handle the Sierra 80. I suggested a 1:8, but they thought that would scare shooters (???) but they did agree to make it a bit faster and still call it a 1:9.

The next 20 rifles were a pre-production run. I had to throat the chambers a bit to make them easier to load for the 80. There are still some of those rifles around with the original barrels and so far as I know, they all shot the 80 just fine.

I have not discussed the 223 barrel with Savage recently, so don't know what actual twist or chamber they are using. I will ask.
 
Just got an email back from mr. Savage. he says my report on the prototypes with the 1:9 twist (the same one they use now) was that most of the 20 rifles would shoot the Sierra 80 so long as the velocity was high and the air temperature was not cold (dense air). This as Feb '93.

I have now looked at the log book for the prototype and see that out of the box it grouped 0.76" with the Sierra 80 and 3.1" with the longer JLK 80 VLD.

This group was with 24.5 gr of WW748 at 2890fps.

The rifle chamber was then touched with the Wylde chamber reamer (from JGS tools) to allow the bullet to be seated a bit farther out. Years later I had done a lot of load devleopment and found that VV N140, VV N150 and RL15 gave hgher velocity and even better groups. 10 shot groups were running around the 0.5 mark.

So, in conclusion, the Savage (and maybe the Remington too) will shoot the Sierra 80 if higher velocity is used with the appropriate powder.
 
keep in mind service rifles are likly shoot ammo rated to nato pressure specs which are like 10000 psi higher to reach the mandated penitration requirments if you hand load and have a .223 rated for milspec ammo then you can with reason push it further then standard rounds
 
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