Is a 45-70 a 'big bore'?

is a 45-70 a 'big bore'

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BORE = CALIBER in this case.

From Wiki:

The term caliber or calibre designates the interior diameter of a tube or the exterior diameter of a wire or rod. It comes from the Italian calibro, itself from qālib (قالب), Arabic word for mold.

The term most often appears with respect to firearms, as a measure of the inside diameter of the barrel in inches or hundredths of an inch, or in millimetres.



so yes. a .458caliber is a big bore
 
In North American circles yes, in Africa - NO! (It's case is not 3" long) In recent years some have taken Marlins to Africa and have killed buffalo with them, but many still consider it a stunt, "you can hunt buff with a .22 if your PH is backing you up with a .600". The truth is that everyone hunting in Africa is backed up by a PH, but not all PH's are created equally.

With modern loadings I am sure the .45-70 is capable of taking any game on the planet with 3 provisos; good bullet placement, choice of suitable bullets, and shoot from a suitable range.
 
I said yes, but it is totally based on the loading IMHO. A factory loaded 405 grain travelling at blackpowder velocities doesn't quite make the cut for me. But the hotter loadings for Marlins or up another notch to the Ruger loads definetly make the cut.
 
The 45-70 can be juiced up to the 450 Marlin (which it inspired in the first place) in appropriate rifles. The 450 Marlin is not too far off the 458 Win mag.

The 454 Casull has been very effectively used to kill Cape Buffalos in mondo revolvers. A 45LC can be loaded to duplicate this performance in the some revolver. What created the Casull in the first place.

Jerry
 
Boomer said:
In North American circles yes, in Africa - NO! (It's case is not 3" long) In recent years some have taken Marlins to Africa and have killed buffalo with them, but many still consider it a stunt, "you can hunt buff with a .22 if your PH is backing you up with a .600". The truth is that everyone hunting in Africa is backed up by a PH, but not all PH's are created equally.

With modern loadings I am sure the .45-70 is capable of taking any game on the planet with 3 provisos; good bullet placement, choice of suitable bullets, and shoot from a suitable range.
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well stated. The 45-70 with the proper load and bullet choice and placement for the game is up to the task of taking any animal on Earth.
 
huntinstuff said:
well stated. The 45-70 with the proper load and bullet choice and placement for the game is up to the task of taking any animal on Earth.
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Elephant have been taken with 243's, and 7.62x39. With proper shot placement, virtually any round on earth can take any game on earth. Doesn't make it a *good* choice.
 
????

prosper said:
the 458 is also generally considered to be marginal for African applications.
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Really surprised as the 375H&H is the universal min to legally hammer the big nasties in Africa. That's a bunch smaller.

Cartridges like the orig 404 Jeff, 458 Lott, 416Rigby are all well documented monster droppers. The 458WM is just the "modern short magnum" equivalent.

500gr at 2000fps IS considered the appropriate boomer to be used.

This the 458 meets by design.

Jerry
 
Hang out on the accuratereloader forums. There's some real eye-opening stuff there. (There are a TON of PH's, guides and african hunters who congregate there). It's probably one of the most enlightening sites on the 'net.

To be fair, though, the 458's 'marginal' reputation was earned in the early days of the cartridge and were more due to poor powders and bullet quality than anything else. Check this out for some background: http://209.221.146.166/WhatsWrong.htm
 
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There is little doubt that like the M16, the 458WM had some very serious teething pains linked directly to powder. Hmmm...Winchester....hot humid climates.....powder failures...????

As for the bullets, it has only been quite recent, that major ammo makers have accepted using bullets from other bullet manf - the so called premium bullet craze.

Would the 458 have had any bullet issues if Win had just stuffed in bullets with a known track record? Or tested their load under real world conditions?

As I have read, the 458 Lott came about because Mr. Lott, a PH, had one too many 'quiet' moments with his 458 Win Mag and decided getting stomped was not much fun.

Today, with the powders and bullets we have, the 458 WM is as reliable and deadly as anything else.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
Really surprised as the 375H&H is the universal min to legally hammer the big nasties in Africa. That's a bunch smaller.

Cartridges like the orig 404 Jeff, 458 Lott, 416Rigby are all well documented monster droppers. The 458WM is just the "modern short magnum" equivalent.

500gr at 2000fps IS considered the appropriate boomer to be used.

This the 458 meets by design.

Jerry
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From the start the 375 H&H was loaded with good solid and soft point 300 grn bullets at a velocity of around 2500 fps. That made it's rep and even then, 1912, it was considered the minimum.

404 Jeffery, 400 grn bullet, 2125 fps,
416 Rigby, 410 grn bullet, 2370 fps,
425 Westly Richards, 410 grn bullet, 2350 fps,
458 Lott, 500 grn bullet, 2300 fps,
450 Nitro Express, 480 grn bullet, 2175 fps,
470 " " 500 grn bullet, 2150 fps,

and the real tool of the elephant hunter,
577 3" Nitro express, 750 grn bullet, 2050 fps.


That is what the 458 Win mag had to measure up to. Due to a combination of poor bullet, poor powder selection and a lack of understanding of what the conditions of hunting that the cartridge had to operate under, it failed to meet the test!
 
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that article has been discussed by the PH's and others who earn their living in Africa. The consensus is that it's perfectly fine. For a client's rifle. A client accompanied by a professional, using a professional grade rifle backing him up, just in case.
 
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