Pistol-Gripped Shorty Shotgun League
- Thread starter Brobee
- Start date
Are you sure that your understanding is correct?
You see, if I put a folding stock on my Tac-14 with a 14" barrel ... then that gun becomes a restricted firearm, and because it will have an overall length of less than 26" folded ...
May I suggest to continue any further discussion in this thread:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2032312-Short-Barrel-Shotguns-Legalities-and-history?p=17173132#post17173132://
My only contribution to the legal side of things, particularly with everything going on right now in the OIC department, is to state I’m grateful they are still considered non-restricted and that as such I’m trying hard to enjoy mine to the greatest extent possible right now.
Towards that end I have been working on my next video episode - “Skeet with the 870 Tac14!” - where I just recently achieved a personal goal now two-plus years in the making, and it was awesome that I had the camera there rolling to catch it all....
Filming is complete, cutting is at about 85%, and I’m about 50% into the narration. Can’t wait to share it with those who might be interested!
Best,
Brobee
Towards that end I have been working on my next video episode - “Skeet with the 870 Tac14!” - where I just recently achieved a personal goal now two-plus years in the making, and it was awesome that I had the camera there rolling to catch it all....
Filming is complete, cutting is at about 85%, and I’m about 50% into the narration. Can’t wait to share it with those who might be interested!Best,
Brobee
- Location
- Not really sure.
All banned in 3...2....1.... Shart.
Someone with a better memory than me will come along eventually to clarify everything but once upon a time, perhaps still, Canada ammo provided a pistol grip with their super shorties. This was because with regards to shotguns only the act can be interpreted as allowing shotguns of any OAL as long as it was made that way.
The RCMP lab did not like that loophole so they declared that any such shotgun in such a configuration would then be considered a handgun. The act again clearly says a handgun is a weapon that can be used with one hand among other stuff... Anyone with even basic knowledge of firearms knows you cannot effectively operate a pump shotgun with one hand. Not to mention such devices are brutal to fire even with birdshot again making one handed use nearly impossible.
The RCMP lab did not like that loophole so they declared that any such shotgun in such a configuration would then be considered a handgun. The act again clearly says a handgun is a weapon that can be used with one hand among other stuff... Anyone with even basic knowledge of firearms knows you cannot effectively operate a pump shotgun with one hand. Not to mention such devices are brutal to fire even with birdshot again making one handed use nearly impossible.
This post is actually on topic, but it might not seem that way at first, so just hang in there.
When my wife fired a handgun for the first time in her life (at a Florida indoor range), the availble rental handguns at the range included a number of .22s. I picked the largest, heaviest revolver of the lot that could shoot .22 shorts. I bought a box of shorts and long rifles. When she fired her first shot with the shorts, she said "that was fun and very easy. What's the big deal with recoil?". Then she fired the long rifles, which she also found fun to shoot and very low recoil. Then she fired normal-power .38 out of another heavy revolver. She said "far louder and more recoil, but still very fun to shoot". Etc., right up to .38+P out of a five-shot revolver with a 2" barrel.
My wife's experience with long guns consists of her firing our now useless 7.62x39-caliber semi-auto. That gun has an adjustable stock. She found that rifle very pleasant to shoot and she was extremely accurate with it.
Neither she nor I have ever shot a long gun that does not have a butt stock. She has never fired a shotgun, but I have shot some clays with a 12ga O/U in my youth.
Now back on topic. I'm seriously considering buying a 12ga(!) Shockwave for my wife and I want her first shot with that gun to be as close as possible to the experience she had shooting that .22 in Florida, which I know is impossible, but you get my drift.
Before she fires the shockwave, I intend to wrap the grip with hockey-stick tape, and maybe even the pump. I'd like to install one of those recoil straps on the grip, too.
My question is simple. Which 12ga ammo has the absolute least possilbe recoil? BTW, if we buy a Shockwave, I intend to install an Op sol mini-clip and shorty's will probably be the only ammo we ever shoot. Of the shorty shells, which has the absolute least recoil?
If you have any other suggestions in this situation, I'd appreceiate reading them. I've seen several Shockwave videos which demonstrate various firing positions, but I'd like to hear suggestions on the best position for her first shot. I'm not concerned about her accuracy. I just want her to experience the recoil without being put off by it to the point where she does not want to fire it again.
Thanks.
When my wife fired a handgun for the first time in her life (at a Florida indoor range), the availble rental handguns at the range included a number of .22s. I picked the largest, heaviest revolver of the lot that could shoot .22 shorts. I bought a box of shorts and long rifles. When she fired her first shot with the shorts, she said "that was fun and very easy. What's the big deal with recoil?". Then she fired the long rifles, which she also found fun to shoot and very low recoil. Then she fired normal-power .38 out of another heavy revolver. She said "far louder and more recoil, but still very fun to shoot". Etc., right up to .38+P out of a five-shot revolver with a 2" barrel.
My wife's experience with long guns consists of her firing our now useless 7.62x39-caliber semi-auto. That gun has an adjustable stock. She found that rifle very pleasant to shoot and she was extremely accurate with it.
Neither she nor I have ever shot a long gun that does not have a butt stock. She has never fired a shotgun, but I have shot some clays with a 12ga O/U in my youth.
Now back on topic. I'm seriously considering buying a 12ga(!) Shockwave for my wife and I want her first shot with that gun to be as close as possible to the experience she had shooting that .22 in Florida, which I know is impossible, but you get my drift.
Before she fires the shockwave, I intend to wrap the grip with hockey-stick tape, and maybe even the pump. I'd like to install one of those recoil straps on the grip, too.
My question is simple. Which 12ga ammo has the absolute least possilbe recoil? BTW, if we buy a Shockwave, I intend to install an Op sol mini-clip and shorty's will probably be the only ammo we ever shoot. Of the shorty shells, which has the absolute least recoil?
If you have any other suggestions in this situation, I'd appreceiate reading them. I've seen several Shockwave videos which demonstrate various firing positions, but I'd like to hear suggestions on the best position for her first shot. I'm not concerned about her accuracy. I just want her to experience the recoil without being put off by it to the point where she does not want to fire it again.
Thanks.
Lowest recoil I have found in 12ga is this:
Challenger Super Shortshell - 12GA, #7.5
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/challenger-super-shortshell-12ga-1-3-4-7-5-box-of-20.html
It only contains 5/8 oz of shot .... and runs at 1200 FPS.
12ga Skeet or Trap loads are normally 1oz or 1 1/8oz and run at around the same velocity.
p.s.: The Challenger Shortshells in #4 Buck probably have the same amount of recoil as the #7.5 birdshot. It only contains 14 pellets of #4 buck.
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/challenger-super-shortshell-12ga-1-3-4-4-buckshot-box-of-20.html
I have never tried the slugs .... but 3/4oz at 1000 FPS would indicate same low recoil ...
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/challenger-super-shortshell-12ga-1-3-4-3-4-oz-slug-box-of-20-60150.html
Challenger Super Shortshell - 12GA, #7.5
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/challenger-super-shortshell-12ga-1-3-4-7-5-box-of-20.html
It only contains 5/8 oz of shot .... and runs at 1200 FPS.
12ga Skeet or Trap loads are normally 1oz or 1 1/8oz and run at around the same velocity.
p.s.: The Challenger Shortshells in #4 Buck probably have the same amount of recoil as the #7.5 birdshot. It only contains 14 pellets of #4 buck.
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/challenger-super-shortshell-12ga-1-3-4-4-buckshot-box-of-20.html
I have never tried the slugs .... but 3/4oz at 1000 FPS would indicate same low recoil ...
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/challenger-super-shortshell-12ga-1-3-4-3-4-oz-slug-box-of-20-60150.html
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Thanks for those ammo suggestions!
The funny thing about the slugs is that the photo of the box says 1200 FPS, but the specs at the bottom say 1000 FPS. I'm more inclined to believe the box, but maybe the box is not actually of the ammo being described, or the specs have changed, or the specs at the bottom are simply wrong.
We'll probably give the ammo you've fired a go.
Thanks again.
The velocity on the box is probably the right one .....
However, i just did a bit of searching for low recoil 12ga loads .... and I found a load that might produce even less recoil than the Challenger Super Shortshell.
Winchester AA Low Recoil/Low Noise Target Loads
Only 980 FPS ..... and they have a cushion wad .... it is a 2-3/4" load ....
https://www.outdoorhub.com/reviews/2012/10/31/winchester-low-recoillow-noise-aa-target-load/
And to my surprise ... available in Canada:
https://www.eaglefirearms.ca/winchester-aa12fl8-aa-shotshell-12-ga-2-3-4-26gm-2.html
Great finds -- both the article that specifically mentions a newbie shot-gunner's impressions of the round, as well as the Canadian source. If my wife likes the Shockwave enough to allow me to buy her one, we'll buy that ammo for her to try on her first shot. Then to the shorty shells with the rubber mini-clip.
Thanks, 0faustus0.
Edit: after a bit of searching, found this video of the Winchester low recoil, low noise ammo. Looks pretty good.
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUqdgrxo98w
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Theres a proper way to hold a birdshead or raptor style grip. Push away with the support hand and pull back with the grip in the trigger hand keeping your wrist as straight as possible. Raise the gun to eye level keeping it out front. Lean in to it and let your elbow bending soak up the impulse as you shift weight from the hips to your rear most leg. Watch the target line and swing the gun thru the target on that line and add lead. Keep the swing moving as you fire. With good practise crossing skeet targets become more easy
I have fired lots of low recoil ammo, including the Winchester AA Low Recoil Low Noise, the Challenger Super Shortshell, and the Kent 2 1/2 Low Recoil Training ammo (3/4oz of #8 @ 1200fps). My perception is that the Kent training ammo actually has the least amount of recoil.
Re crossing targets and Skeet - this is the subject of my next video in which I hope to convince tactical shotgun orientated folks that a bit of Skeet with their gun of choice is a worthy pursuit (if they can find a range that isn't too fudded up to tolerate it!) - it's completely filmed, mostly edited, mostly illustrated, and about 1/2 narrated. Hope to have it up in a week or two.
Cheers,
Brobee
Re crossing targets and Skeet - this is the subject of my next video in which I hope to convince tactical shotgun orientated folks that a bit of Skeet with their gun of choice is a worthy pursuit (if they can find a range that isn't too fudded up to tolerate it!) - it's completely filmed, mostly edited, mostly illustrated, and about 1/2 narrated. Hope to have it up in a week or two.
Cheers,
Brobee
Thanks for the low-recoil ammo recommendation.
Iloverevolvers, the suggestion above on the "push-pull" technique is what you want to get your wife to do, the idea is to spread the recoil through both arms.
That said her first shots should be fired from the hip with her rear forearm resting against against her waist for additional support. Once she's comfortable like that she can try from the hip without resting against her waist, then a slightly more raised position shot and if all goes well and she can handle the recoil she can finally try a fully raised shot sighting down the barrel.
A forestrap is a good idea and maybe some rubber coated work gloves with good grip might help as well.
That said her first shots should be fired from the hip with her rear forearm resting against against her waist for additional support. Once she's comfortable like that she can try from the hip without resting against her waist, then a slightly more raised position shot and if all goes well and she can handle the recoil she can finally try a fully raised shot sighting down the barrel.
A forestrap is a good idea and maybe some rubber coated work gloves with good grip might help as well.
Thanks for the advice on firing/holding positions, guys.
I like the idea of both she and I shooting our first shots from the hip with rear forearm resting/pressing somewhat against the hip. Actually, after reading Can-down's suggestion, I stood with our O/U shotgun and imagined how I'd fire it from the hip. I found myself naturally wanting to brace for recoil by putting my arm/forearm/elbow against my hip. I also like the idea of gradually raising the gun upward on succeeding shots to the point of being able to aim and fire comfortably.
When that time hopefully comes, that's the way we'll proceed.........as long as the indoor-range operators allow it AND the station from which shooters fire has a half-wall/barricade that is low enough to allow shooting from the hip.
Thanks again.
