Flyers during load dev

If it was a shotgun pattern i would say bad barrel...after several hundred dollars in projectile. But one flyer per 5?

You have done the obvious checks, and the usual anal case prep stuff would tighten up or loosen groups in the .1's or .2's.

Not sure if you mentioned it. My first thoughts are action screws, after that rifle bedding. Even those make no sense with 4 to an excellent group and one flyer.
 
nowarningshot said:
If it was a shotgun pattern i would say bad barrel...after several hundred dollars in projectile. But one flyer per 5?

You have done the obvious checks, and the usual anal case prep stuff would tighten up or loosen groups in the .1's or .2's.

Not sure if you mentioned it. My first thoughts are action screws, after that rifle bedding. Even those make no sense with 4 to an excellent group and one flyer.
Click to expand...

What makes even less sense in my mind, is having 2 tight groups on the same target.
As in 3 rounds really close together, and the 2 flyers 2'' further we're within 1/4'' from each other.
May be a fluke may be something wildly wrong going on.

This Friday I'll keep my target to present,
As last session I was alone and shouted to myself this is bull#### and thrashed the target lol
 
Hate to ask, but in the name of solving the problem of the occasional flyer...is this effect repeatable with someone else shooting?

Maybe a flinch or some other minor issue with technique?

Good to rule out human factors as well as mechanical factors...

For the record: I flinch from time to time...we need to be able to speak openly about this "problem"...
 
I assure you, when I flinch I can call it.
I’m not perfect by any means and may have an uncalled one from time to time,
But 13 years of competitive pistol really ingrained some soft trigger squeeze and proper follow through.
Got 3 rifles before this one that I got wicked multi-group targets to show for.

By the way, just recouped a picture of my second range outing with it, had tried many loads at 200M and had went with 4 shot groups to save ammo and barrel heat on such a large test (tested everything from 42.7 to 45.4)
These we’re my 2 best ones I had sent my buddy.

Left diamond 44.8gn Varget, right diamond 45.1gn Varget
No chrono data at the time as I let the targets tell the story before whipping the LabRadar out.

77D00126-B87A-4E42-80D9-279303E71A07.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 77D00126-B87A-4E42-80D9-279303E71A07.jpg
    77D00126-B87A-4E42-80D9-279303E71A07.jpg
    41.5 KB · Views: 277
Last edited:
Get someone else behind that rifle , a known good shooter ,
If you still get the flyers , changed the scope and retest .
We had the same issue with two different rifles at my club , turn out both times if was the scope that was the culprit !
Speaking of scopes I looked at this thread again and didn't see what you were using for a scope .
Cat
 
Sadly enough I don’t have anyone around me to test it also, especially since Covid.
But I do shoot other rifles as I own a few, I don’t get it with the other ones, 2 others are simply printing tight groups.
Even my HS precision Savage has the accutrigger set heavier than this one to make weight for NSCC precision rifle, and I don’t get the flyers.

Scope is a Vortex razor

37E8A7FD-EE67-4910-9D92-92E4FC8E2165.jpg


Also noticed that firing pin spring looks twisted like an SKS recoil spring, any Savage long time users know if this is the norm?

D679FF1A-9C1C-4466-9D8E-B1448363341B.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 37E8A7FD-EE67-4910-9D92-92E4FC8E2165.jpg
    37E8A7FD-EE67-4910-9D92-92E4FC8E2165.jpg
    52 KB · Views: 260
  • D679FF1A-9C1C-4466-9D8E-B1448363341B.jpg
    D679FF1A-9C1C-4466-9D8E-B1448363341B.jpg
    39.2 KB · Views: 258
Is the parallax adjusted correctly for 200M? And I don't just mean did you turn it to 200M. Is the scope actually parallax free at 200M? Perhaps the parallax is not dialed in and you have a slight change in cheek weld.
 
MartyK2500 said:
Sadly enough I don’t have anyone around me to test it also, especially since Covid.
But I do shoot other rifles as I own a few, I don’t get it with the other ones, 2 others are simply printing tight groups.
Even my HS precision Savage has the accutrigger set heavier than this one to make weight for NSCC precision rifle, and I don’t get the flyers.

Scope is a Vortex razor

View attachment 397978


Also noticed that firing pin spring looks twisted like an SKS recoil spring, any Savage long time users know if this is the norm?

View attachment 397979
Click to expand...

Both the scopes were Vortex scopes that went bad, one on a Tikka and one on a Savage.
Take one of your scopes that is reliable and put it on that rifle and retest, I really DO NOT think it is the gun!:sok2
Cat
 
Markus said:
Is the parallax adjusted correctly for 200M? And I don't just mean did you turn it to 200M. Is the scope actually parallax free at 200M? Perhaps the parallax is not dialed in and you have a slight change in cheek weld.
Click to expand...

Even with my NF ATACR, I never simply dial, you always see me do this head wiggle thing when adjusting parallax, until the crosshair moves at the same rate as the target.
And with the Vortex, 200 on the dial is never correct for 200.

Jerry, yes these we’re 2 groups at 200, while doing my broad range load dev, hence the 4 shot groups.
Alright I guess it’s time for a scope swap.
It pains me as I don’t have any spares and I hate ripping a scope of a zero’d rifle, but this is where I’m at now.
The ATACR will make a nice candidate for this test, as I believe that it’s reliable.
 
For myself when I see this, it’s generally me swapping back and forth between my eye focusing on the target and focusing on the reticle. Usually makes a shift of around an inch at 100m.
 
Tomorrow morning , I am going to test factory loaded Federal GMM 185 Berger Juggernaut ammo as well as "tweaked" GMM Juggernaut at .010 off . This is what the 10 twist was optimized for and will eliminate any possible issue with reloaded 175 SMK ammo . I do not believe this is a scope issue as the scope that I've been testing with has been flawless . The chances of two new rifles not shooting well with two bad scopes is almost zero . Tomorrow morning will tell the tale .
 
HondaVTEC said:
Tomorrow morning , I am going to test factory loaded Federal GMM 185 Berger Juggernaut ammo as well as "tweaked" GMM Juggernaut at .010 off . This is what the 10 twist was optimized for and will eliminate any possible issue with reloaded 175 SMK ammo . I do not believe this is a scope issue as the scope that I've been testing with has been flawless . The chances of two new rifles not shooting well with two bad scopes is almost zero . Tomorrow morning will tell the tale .
Click to expand...

Don't change the ammo and the scope at the same time!
That puts too many variables into it IMO.
Use the same ammo you were having issues with and change the scope first , that will tell you if it is your scope or not .
If you change the scope and your Ammo and things tighten up , you will have to figure out if it was one of the other!
Just change had scope .
Cat
 
There is nothing wrong with my scope . I am convinced of that . It was removed from a rifle that was shooting 1/2 moa and instantly went bad ? I don't think so . I might be wrong but that's just too big of a coincidence , especially when MartyK2500's is doing the exact same thing .
 
HondaVTEC said:
There is nothing wrong with my scope . I am convinced of that . It was removed from a rifle that was shooting 1/2 moa and instantly went bad ? I don't think so . I might be wrong but that's just too big of a coincidence , especially when MartyK2500's is doing the exact same thing .
Click to expand...

That is exactly what happened to both Vortex scopes that the guys had issues with at my club - not over time, they both quit holding zero from one shooting session to the next!
A scope change on both rifles brought gem right back shooting under 1/2 MOA.
Cat
 
I have to admit that 2 identical rifles with 2 identical problems may be more than a coincidence...
Honda guy, did you try removing brake?
I’ve seen reported problems about them being overtorqued and giving problems on american forums, for this specific model of Savage BTW, just yet another thing to try.
 
OP, the flyer condition you describe really sounds like a stability in flight issue.

I have a custom 308, built on a Rem 700 action, with a 1-15 twist, 24 in bbl. Maker unknown.

I built this rifle specifically to shoot SMK 150 grain bullets, because 10 ea 500 count boxes were part of an estate sale, without the firearms.

This rifle will hold sub half moa consistently, no flyers, if cleaned before the fouling gets past its happy level.

I wanted to see how well it would do with 168 SMKs.

My experience was identical to that which you describe. I shot a 100 round box, when it dawned on me what was going on.

I know better than to push the stability threshold.

At first I felt I could get away with some load density tweaking or jump to leade tweaking, simply because other than the flyers, the groups were so good.

I spent a day at the range, going through all the motions, to get the 168 SMKs to shoot well, consistently, in a repeatable/trustable manner. Didn't happen.

I had a box loaded with 155 gr Sierra Palma Match with me to use as a trusted accuracy base standard. These shot every bit as well as expected.

The 168 SMKs were right on the edge of the ability of my barrel to consistently maintain stability
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom