6.5x55 Swede CG 63 help request

PPCLI-Jim

PPCLI-Jim

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I'm looking for some help, I loaded as per the spec at 140 grain bullets. 42 gr Sta-Ball and I am showing pressure signs with my Hornady SST and Interlocks. I've tried Swedish mil brass ,Win and Federal also. So to start with I am trying to find one that works with the longer 28" barrel this thing has.

I'd prefer to stay with the standard 140 grain bullet weight, but other than that, I'll buy new powder if required.
I've got 4831 , Varget, 6.5 Sta-Ball on hand as well as a few others.
 
Can you quantify “pressure signs”? What exactly are you seeing? I bought a bunch of Nosler 1F brass from a friend who shoots it out of a tikka and it flattens the primers the same as magnum cartridges. Reload with 4831, 140gr Barnes match burners for my cg63 and I get slightly less primer flattening then the factory Nosler loads. I used hodgdon reloading website and my Lyman manual to develop my load. If you want the actual load I use let me know but I advice you start at recommended starting loads and work your way up. According to hodgdon the load for staball 6.5 is 40.0gr-45.0gr. Depending on what your pressure signs are is it possible you have headspace issues give that CG63 rifles are rebarrelled and the bolts are not matched to the receivers and barrels.
One final note, I load my bolt action 6.5x55 with imr4831 but under no circumstances should you load those rounds into an ag42.
 
For reference here is some primers. From left to right 7mm rem mag fired from a Remington 700, factory Nosler trophy grade ammo fired from a tikka, a medium 4064 reload fired from an Ag42. Unfortunately, I don’t have any fired brass from the cg63 that was loaded with imr4831 as it has since been prepped and loaded. The Nosler brass is some of the flattest primers I have seen. Likely, the Nosler is made for more modern firearms so I wouldn’t recommend trying to replicate it in m96 mauser actions but I would assume the Nosler is not over pressure ammunition (why would a company risk the lawsuit?) given that Nosler is American I’m guessing it’s SAAMi spec which is 51,000psi. For reference Swedish Mausers were one time proofed at 65,992psi which is about 129% the SAAMI max. Unfortunately I can’t find the current Saami proof pressure right now but CIP often proof tests two round at 125-130% but they rate 6.5x55 at 55,110psi and proof at 68,893psi. Suggesting that CIP regulated ammo could be slightly hot for m96, make your own conclusions. Anyway, what I’m saying is based on this I do not believe a flat primer to be an accurate overpressure (by SAAMI standards) sign in 6.5x55 unless Nosler is overloading their ammo but i do load ammo that results in primers less flat. As always make your own decisions about what is safe for you and your rifle and always start with starting loads and work up.

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Standard bullet weight for the "original M96 load" was 156-160gr. with a long round nose projectile. Yes, there is other variations, blah, blah,...

If you can chamber the rounds in that original configuration, your rifle has most likely a throat optimized for it and should give you better performance than with the 139/140s.

What is the barrel/reveiver/bolt date of your rifle?
 
A CG63 was an target rifle made for Swede shooting sports - all were made at Carl Gustaf arsenal or by a short list of approved gunsmiths or by Norma Precision using parts from the Carl Gustaf arsenal and a customer's rifle. They all used M94, m96 or less commonly, m38 receivers. There were no "new" receivers made for the CG63. The assembly was proof tested - those rifles assembled at CG Arsenal will have a "zig zag" rune symbol on the left receiver wall; Norma Precision used an "NP" stamp; I do not know what marks were used by the gunsmiths - and it is law in Sweden that an arm built for a customer must be proof tested, unlike in North America. So no worries about matching or not - the original parts were headspaced and proof tested. You will go cross eyed trying to verify the headspace with North American SAAMI gauges - the Swede gauges are longer than SAAMI's, so even a brand new, straight from arsenal Swede 6.5x55 will fail headspace check with SAAMI gauges. Most of the foregoing is from Dana Jones book - The Mauser in Sweden - Crown Jewels".

In the Swede competitions, all shooters use the same ammunition - I believe these days it is Norma 130 grain. The CG63 has been superseded by newer rifles - I think the latest approved rifle is a Sauer, but even the old original m1896 is still "approved" if a competitor wanted to use one. As per that Dana Jones book, some competitors had replacement Schultz and Larsen barrels installed to replace the CG ones - all are required to be re-proofed when that was done.
 
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Some writing suggests that visual inspection of a primer might not accurately reflect pressure. Flattened primers can be the result of excess headspace and low pressure, for example. Ejector marks on the case head are almost always a sign of excess pressure for that brass.

In picture below, the five cases to the rear are Sellier & Bellot 6.5x55SE 140 grain SP No. 2928 factory loads fired. The five cases to the front are 6.5x55 Norma factory cases - sold to me as once fired factory loads from Swede shooting ranges. Hopefully you can see the variation in primer condition in the picture:

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The single easiest way for home guy to assess pressure is to measure velocity. Using pressure tested data from loading manuals, and powders as given there, if you are getting more velocity, you had more pressure than they did. Bolt lift, and primer condition, may not reflect excess pressure, especially if the bolt face and chamber are finely finished. Conversely, hard bolt lift can be a result of a pitted or rough chamber, rather than excess pressure.
 
I'm not familiar with the powder you used.
I prefer to use 38.5 grains of IMR4350 in my Swedish Mausers with 140 grain bullets.
With that load I get 1" -1 1/2" groups at 100m.

Another good powder is Varget. I used 36-38 grains with 140 grain bullets.
IMR4831 also works very well. The longer barrels prefer slowish burning powders.
I also only use standard primers. And mostly PPU brass.
Regardless of which powder I use, I have found around 2400 fps is where the accuracy is the best with a 140 grain bullet.

I noticed your bolt isn't an original pattern. It has been modified to allow use with a scope.
Do the numbers match?

There is a couple really good facebook pages that we exchange load data and pictures of our Swedish Mausers.
You should consider joining. Let me know if you want more information.


I reload for CG63, M96, M38, and a M41B.
My CG63 has the Carl Gustaf medium heavy barrel like yours. Much heavier than the M96 barrel.

When you are looking up load data be cautious of data for new rifles. The Swedish M96 Mausers are not designed to handle the same load modern 6.5x55 Swedish rifles can handle.
 
I also concur with most here that you may be misreading a flat primer as a sign of excess pressure, when in fact it may merely indicate slightly excess headspace. Watch for extractor marks, loose primers, enlarged primer pockets and difficult bolt opening/ extraction. Those are usually tell tale signs of excess pressure.
 
PPCLI-Jim said:
Thanks all, I am just a little nervous about it. Just reading into it a bit much I'm guessing.
Click to expand...

With all of my Swedish Mausers I have found excellent accuracy long before reaching anywhere near max loads.
Most of mine have mint barrels and I prefer to baby them. I know I will never wear out a barrel in my life time.
However, some are capable of 1" groups at 100y and my M41B is a sub MOA rifle.

I think over 2600 fps with 140 grain bullet is really pushing it. I wouldn't do it! I'm assuming "pacobillie" is not firing 140 grain bullets.
Even with a 120 grain bullet, that is getting up there...
 
dannyp said:
With all of my Swedish Mausers I have found excellent accuracy long before reaching anywhere near max loads.
Most of mine have mint barrels and I prefer to baby them. I know I will never wear out a barrel in my life time.
However, some are capable of 1" groups at 100y and my M41B is a sub MOA rifle.

I think over 2600 fps with 140 grain bullet is really pushing it. I wouldn't do it! I'm assuming "pacobillie" is not firing 140 grain bullets.
Even with a 120 grain bullet, that is getting up there...
Click to expand...

I am firing 143 gr. Eld-x from a 24 in. Barrel on a CG 1916 action, clocking at 2665 fps
 
pacobillie said:
I am firing 143 gr. Eld-x from a 24 in. Barrel on a CG 1916 action, clocking at 2665 fps
Click to expand...

So, not sure what to say. You are way beyond the velocity that Hornady 9th publishes as their presumably pressure tested loads, for 140 grain bullets in a 29" barrel. And you are doing that in a 104 year old receiver. What could they possibly know??
 
Whoa there guys, I was merely trying to ensure that I wasn't about to blow something up or waste a barrel. I don't need a thread locked, I merely wanted to ensure that Somebody other than me will be able to enjoy it safely. The factory stuff from the military side pushed the 140 gr bullet at 2600 fps roughly with the LONG barrel, that I have.
So without much ado heres the Wiki about velocities from this rifle. It's optimized for a 140 grain at a slightly higher velocity than I am using but as I have never loaded this cartridge before and neither have most of my friends I was trying to cover the bases and ask for help.

6.5x55
140 SST
IMR 4831: 38.6gr to 44.1gr
COL: 2.905"
this is from HORNADY and it appears that I am doing it right but reading too much about the primers.



The militaries of Sweden and Norway loaded their 6.5×55mm skarp patron m/94 projektil m/94 (live cartridge m/94 projectile m/94) service ammunition with a 10.1 grams (156 gr) long round-nosed m/94 (B-projectile) bullet fired at a muzzle velocity of 725 m/s (2,379 ft/s) with 2,654 J (1,957 ft⋅lbf) muzzle energy from a 739 mm (29.1 in) long barrel up to the early phase of World War II and Norwegian occupation by Germany in 1940.

From 1941 onwards, Sweden, which remained neutral during World War II, adopted skarp patron m/94 prickskytte m/41 (live cartridge m/94 sharpshooting m/41) ammunition loaded with a 9.1 grams (140 gr) spitzer bullet (D-projectile) fired at a muzzle velocity of 800 m/s (2,625 ft/s) with 2,912 J (2,148 ft⋅lbf) muzzle energy from a 739 mm (29.1 in) long barrel.[19] Besides a pointed nose the m/41 D-projectile also had a boat tail. Originally developed for the m/41 sniper rifle, this new cartridge replaced the m/94 ammunition loaded with the M/94 projectile for general use.[20] Besides the two skarp patron (live full metal jacket ball cartridge) variants various other military 6.5×55mm ammunition types like enhanced precision, armor piercing, tracer, blank, inert and training cartridges were available.
 
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