Stripped butt plat screws

Andronicus

Andronicus

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OK, the screws on the butt plate of my Savage 99C have stripped the wood. I read the best way to fix this is by drilling out and filling with a hardwood dowel. The recommendation was that the dowel be "a little bigger" than the OD of the screws.

The screws have a OD of 5/32". What is a good size of dowel? (what does "a little bigger" mean?) Home Depot sells 5/16"?
 
You have tons of room in a butt stock, 1/2" even 5/8" will be fine.

Make sure you know what you are buying - most big box dowels are Poplar - technically a hard wood, but it is very soft.
A better option is to go to a lumberyard and get some maple dowels, or if you have a (friend with) a plug cutter, cut some out of Birch/Maple/Walnut. Something hard.
 
sean69 said:
You have tons of room in a butt stock, 1/2" even 5/8" will be fine.

Make sure you know what you are buying - most big box dowels are Poplar - technically a hard wood, but it is very soft.
A better option is to go to a lumberyard and get some maple dowels, or if you have a (friend with) a plug cutter, cut some out of Birch/Maple/Walnut. Something hard.
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Thanks for those tips. I'll try to get it done tonight.
 
I have repaired several - hasn't been mentioned, but you will want to drill pilot holes! Trying to drive a wood screw type butt plate screw into end grain of a birch/maple/oak plug will either strip or split - gun repair articles often mention using the actual screw coated with soap to "thread" the pilot hole as well, before actually installing the butt plate - can be a real challenge to exactly re-position those screw holes to get the original butt plate back into its exact original position and not overhanging one side and "underhanging" the other side!! Not real certain where the "little bit bigger than OD" came from? I can see wanting the dowel plug to be longer than the screw. Slip fit between dowel and parent stock - higher end wood glue - perhaps a slice or two along the round length of the dowel to allow excess glue to "vent" out of the hole, and the glued-in dowel will be virtually as strong as the original wood was. Too tight of fit in hole will "glue starve" the dowel along its length. You might want to be fussy enough to shape the bottom end of the plug to match the shape of the bit that you drilled the hole with?
 
Potashminer said:
I have repaired several - hasn't been mentioned, but you will want to drill pilot holes! Trying to drive a wood screw type butt plate screw into end grain of a birch/maple/oak plug will either strip or split - gun repair articles often mention using the actual screw coated with soap to "thread" the pilot hole as well, before actually installing the butt plate - can be a real challenge to exactly re-position those screw holes to get the original butt plate back into its exact original position and not overhanging one side and "underhanging" the other side!! Not real certain where the "little bit bigger than OD" came from? I can see wanting the dowel plug to be longer than the screw. Slip fit between dowel and parent stock - higher end wood glue - perhaps a slice or two along the round length of the dowel to allow excess glue to "vent" out of the hole, and the glued-in dowel will be virtually as strong as the original wood was. Too tight of fit in hole will "glue starve" the dowel along its length. You might want to be fussy enough to shape the bottom end of the plug to match the shape of the bit that you drilled the hole with?
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These are all good points.

- your plug should be longer than the screw

- either put a couple of grooves in the plug or I use a triangular file and file a helical groove. (only take a couple minutes) - you can also sand the plug a bit so there is some clearance - as mentioned, don't starve the joint.

- drill your plug holes using a brad point bit if you have one (best option in end grain & leaves a (relatively) flat bottom) twist bits tend to wander in end grain.

- let it set/cure, file off the plugs flush with the butt - you probably won't have to wait long, you will be drilling into the plug, not the joint - so 1/2 hour is just fine.

- fit your plug and use center finding punches to locate your pilot holes. Your pilot holes should be as close to the same diameter as the web of the screw. If it has a shank the same or larger than the threads, you will need to come back with a larger bit same size as the shank and drill that only deep enough to allow the shank to clear.

- you do need pilot holes as Potashminer mentioned.

- drill them absolutely perpendicular to the plane of the butt plate, a couple degrees backwards, forwards or to either side and your screw won't sit flush in the plate as Potashminer noted. (and that really looks like hell)

- I like to use beeswax on all my metal to wood fastenings like this. but soap will work too.

- start screwing. ;)


The fun thing about this kind of hidden repair is that if your screws are not sitting nice and flush with the butt plate, just drill out the plug and try again. :)

I don't know where "a little bigger than OD" came from either - you want enough material there to hold the threads ... the bigger the plug you use, the wider your margin of error when drilling pilot holes :)
 
My suggestion will likely cause a flurry of heart stoppages, but here goes: I have simply used a piece of appropriately sized cardboard, rolled and fitted in the hole. Not too big to prevent splitting the butt stock, but big enough to take the screw down and stay put.
 
Yes to last two posts - have done that myself in the past, or similar - wanted to "make do" and it kinda does work, if you can keep the screw to centre of original hole, as mentioned. Might even last long enough until appropriate dowel material found. Hard to imagine how those screws get stripped in first place, though - they do not usually see much "action" to hold against, so over tightening?? And if overtightened, then probably messing up the screw slots by using a tapered screw driver? Or stock material oil soaked and disintegrating? Probably would use different standard for tightening loose butt screw on a $100 "moose gun" versus a recoil pad on a $2,500 rifle?
 
Yeah, the toothpicks and glue or the rolled up card stock are nice fixes if you just need to keep the butt plate fixed to the stock. But those are very much short term "make do" options. The proper way to make a permanent repair is the dowel and pilot drill.

You don't need a buddy with a dowel plate either. For a one off job of this sort you can get a short strip of hardwood like those mentioned above. Then whittle it with any old knife to get it roughly rounded and a little oversize. Then you can just use a regular washer with the right size center hole and file a slightly tapered sharp edged hole. Then drive the roughed dowel through the washer to size it.

Keep in mind too that butt plate screws are always screwed into end grain wood. And that's as weak a wood screw seating as you'll find anywhere. So don't go crazy with the torque. Just screw in until the head seats and you feel the resistance then stop. None of that "a little more for good measure" stuff on end grain threads.
 
Potashminer said:
Yes to last two posts - have done that myself in the past, or similar - wanted to "make do" and it kinda does work, if you can keep the screw to centre of original hole, as mentioned. Might even last long enough until appropriate dowel material found. Hard to imagine how those screws get stripped in first place, though - they do not usually see much "action" to hold against, so over tightening?? And if overtightened, then probably messing up the screw slots by using a tapered screw driver? Or stock material oil soaked and disintegrating? Probably would use different standard for tightening loose butt screw on a $100 "moose gun" versus a recoil pad on a $2,500 rifle?
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This Savage 99C was inherited. It has a very old cheap Chinese recoil pad likely installed by a previous owner. When I took off the recoil pad to disassemble the gun, and the holes were fully stripped. I think this testifies to you point that the screws don't "see much action". I'm replacing the recoil pad with a new Savage buttplate. I want to do the repair properly.
 
Might want to consider that the original Savage butt screws were larger diameter than the screws supplied with that "cheap Chinese recoil pad" - easy enough to feel "stripped out" if the screws are smaller than the originals. Might be worth your while to source the original size screws with that original butt plate - might be all that is needed??
 
Potashminer said:
Might want to consider that the original Savage butt screws were larger diameter than the screws supplied with that "cheap Chinese recoil pad" - easy enough to feel "stripped out" if the screws are smaller than the originals. Might be worth your while to source the original size screws with that original butt plate - might be all that is needed??
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Good point. The screws I have now aren't even the proper head for use with a buttplate I guess I'll have to try to find appropriate screws.
 
Potashminer said:
Might want to consider that the original Savage butt screws were larger diameter than the screws supplied with that "cheap Chinese recoil pad" - easy enough to feel "stripped out" if the screws are smaller than the originals. Might be worth your while to source the original size screws with that original butt plate - might be all that is needed??
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OK, so I received the butt plate. Very nice. Anyway, I need two of these
148770.jpg

Any ideas on how to get these localy without paying $25USD with shipping from NUMRICH?
 
Ha! Without knowing any dimensions is pretty much a guessing game! In my shop, I would dig out a coffee can of orphan wood screws and start trying various - come up with something like - "#8 by 3/4" long - threaded all the way to screw head" - could be a #6, could be a #10 - sizes found on listings on Internet. Then, looks like Phillips head, not Robertson or slotted. Then looks like domed or oval head, not flat head. With that, off to hardware store where can likely find bubble thingy with 6 or 10 screws that match description, but likely shiny Zinc Coated silver coloured. Then have to figure out how to blacken whatever coating - only need to do top face, since shoulder and threads won't be seen. It sucks to pay $25 for a couple screws, especially if you do not know whether they will work or not - started out that issue was "stripped screws", so now to find out what is left to actually hold within the stock???
 
Andronicus said:
OK, so I received the butt plate. Very nice. Anyway, I need two of these
148770.jpg

Any ideas on how to get these localy without paying $25USD with shipping from NUMRICH?
Click to expand...

PM me your address and the size you need - I have black oxide slotted screws from Blacksmith Bolt Supply - they are very close to the same dimensions as Winchester screws.
 
sean69 said:
PM me your address and the size you need - I have black oxide slotted screws from Blacksmith Bolt Supply - they are very close to the same dimensions as Winchester screws.
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I guess that's the point. I don't know what size I need. The measurements I took on the butt plate are: hole for the screw head is approx. 5/16" or 3/8" while the hole penetration is 1/4".
 
I have repaired a few stocks over the years by simply smearing a few drops of epoxy into the stripped butt plate and recoil pad holes.

The trick is in lightly waxing the screw threads before installing the screws, and turning them in until they just barely seat and fit the pad perfectly to the stock. The next day the epoxy is cured, and you can snug up the screws tight.

Works even better on stock swivel threads, since those are in cross grain wood. Have some of those that have been in there for several decades and still solid.

Ted
 
I have seen various m1 garand stocks that have been filled with two part expoxy and drilled for the butt screw
 
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