School me on long range 308 rifle/optic

zelly

zelly

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Hey guys and gals. I was a competitive skeet shooter, then got into handguns and now I pulled out my ns522 norinco and I’ve been putting holes down range at 100 yards ect. I still am going to keep using the .22 to practise my technical side of shooting and wrap my head around all things involved with long range shooting. I’ve been watching lots of informative videos ect. My questions are these tho as I just bought 1500 norinco 308 rounds without owning a 308

1) I’d like to get a high end optic 750-1500 range but I’d like something with as much magnification as possible as I like that sort of thing. My range is only good for 200-225 yards. Leaning toward vortex.

2) I’ve been told spend the money on a scope right away as you can “work up to being as good as your scope” and to enter at the midrange level with a gun as it’s easier to sell the gun and upgrade then it is to sell high end optics. That being said I understand I’m not going to be putting holes through holes at 200 with norinco ammo. I’d be happy just consistently hitting say a 3-4 inch gong. I’d like to get a gun that is more “tactical” so i can be a mall ninja at home and look like an operator at the range (I am kidding but not really, be kind). Any suggestions on a good platform to start ? And I know their are lots of upgrades that need to occur to stock guns to close up a grouping. I just want to have fun and put bullets down range and be “fairly accurate”. Ps no no I don’t want a mossberg night train. Lol. Even tho the look fits the bill. Thanks everyone for your input. .
 
Have a look at Athlon scopes. 50x isn't necessary at 200 yards. That norinco isn't precision ammo. The quote I believe is "garbage in, garbage out". Have a look at tikka rifles. Pass on savage.
 
dan belisle said:
In your price range and max magnification I think you're looking for a sightron 10-50. Good scopes. - dan
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Thanks I will check those out ... any thoughts on a gun?

laker415 said:
Have a look at Athlon scopes. 50x isn't necessary at 200 yards. That norinco isn't precision ammo. The quote I believe is "garbage in, garbage out". Have a look at tikka rifles. Pass on savage.
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Oh I know it’s not match ammo. But hopefully it will hit a 3-4 inch gong at 200 yards. Also I know x50 isint needed but I want to see the mosquitos land on the target at 200. Just personal preference. Thank you for your input it’s appreciated
 
laker415 said:
Have a look at Athlon scopes. 50x isn't necessary at 200 yards. That norinco isn't precision ammo. The quote I believe is "garbage in, garbage out". Have a look at tikka rifles. Pass on savage.
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Unless it's athlons top of the line BTR its a Chinese made scope...supporting the Chinese communist party is not good advice.
 
Spending a bunch of money on an optic off the bat isn't bad advice but you'll want to have a hard think on what kind of precision rifle shooting you're interested (or might be interested in doing) because all "high end" optics don't have the same feature sets. There's a huge difference between benchers or f-class type optics (SFP, very high magnification) and "practical precision" type optics (FFP, generally 3-18 or 5-25ish magnification). You could use one type for the other style of shooting but you'd be better served by getting a handle on what you'd like to do first.

That Norinco ball ammo probably won't shoot particularly tight. It'd be great for practicing un-supported positional shooting (standing, kneeling, seated) at reasonably sized targets but it will definitely leave you chasing your tail a bit if that's all you shoot. Whatever you get for a rifle (Rem 700, Tikka, Howa, Savage, etc) you'd be better served feeding it a diet of decent precision ammo so you can at least develop a baseline of what you and your rifle are capable of, especially as you work to improve your abilities.
 
rugbydave said:
Spending a bunch of money on an optic off the bat isn't bad advice but you'll want to have a hard think on what kind of precision rifle shooting you're interested (or might be interested in doing) because all "high end" optics don't have the same feature sets. There's a huge difference between benchers or f-class type optics (SFP, very high magnification) and "practical precision" type optics (FFP, generally 3-18 or 5-25ish magnification). You could use one type for the other style of shooting but you'd be better served by getting a handle on what you'd like to do first.

That Norinco ball ammo probably won't shoot particularly tight. It'd be great for practicing un-supported positional shooting (standing, kneeling, seated) at reasonably sized targets but it will definitely leave you chasing your tail a bit if that's all you shoot. Whatever you get for a rifle (Rem 700, Tikka, Howa, Savage, etc) you'd be better served feeding it a diet of decent precision ammo so you can at least develop a baseline of what you and your rifle are capable of, especially as you work to improve your abilities.
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G ood advice. Basically the norinco ammo is just “practice” ammo. It should be able to give me a bunch of practise on the cheap until I’m ready to start spending big bucks in good ammo. I should state. I just want to do “long range” shooting at first. Out to 200ish. I emphasize on long range versus precision for the time being. Meaning I’d be happy to put something on paper at 200 and if I’m able to play around at longer ranges just to again, put something on paper. Just for fun. Once I get the hang of things I can work on the “precision” aspect. End of the day I just want to wet my feet before I jump in the pool and always want to keep it fun!
 
Savage 10tr with a vortex viper gen2 5-25 would be the cheapest way to start and still have decent quality. The sightrons are good quality too, but not as tacticool.
For maybe double the money of the 10tr, you could get into a low round Remington 700 5r. You end up with a way better stock and a easier upgrade path.
Tikka ctr is a decent rifle, but I’m not a huge fan of the stock. There’s a chassis available for all of them though if that’s the route you go eventually.
Precision shooting will take over if you’re the patient type. Everything else you shoot will come to the range to kill time while your barrel cools.
 
Frankly, I would look at a used Leupold with the lifetime warranty. Pretty hard to go wrong with that assurance and with service right here in Canada. Maybe a 6 - 18 X 40 with a fine duplex? I would stay away from high magnification single power scopes as mirage is often a concern ... and cannot be dialed down.
I have heard some concerns regarding the lower end Vortex line but no direct experience.
 
Hey there. I started down the long range rabbit hole last year and it has been so much fun, you will enjoy it to! A bit of advice I learned you already know, get decent glass off the hop. My budget was tight and I didn’t get the scope I wanted I went with that would work for now and ended up with a vortex diamondback tactical FFP. That being said the scope has done everything I have asked of it so I can not complain at all! My recommendation for a scope would be at minimum a vortex PST gen 2 or a nice Leupold like mentioned above. And do t be afraid of buying used! You can find great deals on lightly used optics all over you just have to keep your eyes open.

As far as a rifle this is up to you and what you are really looking for. Almost any rifle now a days will shoot well enough to hit 3”-4” gongs at 200 with some practice and good ammo. If you want a base rifle you can modify and upgrade go with a remmy 700 they are used every day to put holes in paper very close close together. Myself I went with the Ruger RPR as it was everything I wanted to get started in prs shooting and I found a dealer who had a brand new one at 50% off. The tikka CTR is a fantastic rifle as well and was originally my first choice before I found the Ruger. I would spend some time looking at all the rifle options and come up 2-3 you want and keep an eye out for sales and on the EE. Usually you will find one of them at a really good price after a bit of time. Good luck!
 
laker415 said:
Have a look at Athlon scopes. 50x isn't necessary at 200 yards. That norinco isn't precision ammo. The quote I believe is "garbage in, garbage out". Have a look at tikka rifles. Pass on savage.
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My savage 110 ultralight throws ragged cloverleaf 4 shot groups with factory ammo.. better with hand loads and a trained shooter I’m sure.

Absolutely no reason to pass on savages these days the higher end models are more accurate than most shooters ever will be these days.
 
I've always been a proponent of less is more, that is higher quality glass over magnification. A cheap 50x top end scope likely wont be usable at 1/2 that power most of the time. Better to get a 16 or 20x magnification with better glass and actually see things clearly.

200 yards... isn't really long range. My hunting rifle will shoot sub MOA groups all day long at that distance with a regular 3-9x optic. However once you stretch out past 400, more glass helps. Accurate 308 rifles from all the manufacturers are common as bad politicians, so pick the one that fits you the best/you like.

Don't get too hung up on gear, nothing will hold you back like your own skill for a while. I tend to shake my head watching guys with $6000 worth of rifle, optic and gear at the 50 yard line, peering through the $1000 spotting scope trying to read 4" groups. They are usually the ones shooting Norinco ammo. That said, it's good to practice trigger time. But how do you know your fundamentals are off. Is it the ammo shooting 4 MOA or are you?
 
zelly said:
Thanks I will check those out ... any thoughts on a gun?



Oh I know it’s not match ammo. But hopefully it will hit a 3-4 inch gong at 200 yards. Also I know x50 isint needed but I want to see the mosquitos land on the target at 200. Just personal preference. Thank you for your input it’s appreciated
Click to expand...

I generally recommend Rem 700's, simply because there is so much aftermarket available for them. Aside from that, Tikka makes a good rifle, Sako, Savage, even Ruger and Winchester can be accurate. - dan
 
zelly said:
Hey guys and gals. I was a competitive skeet shooter, then got into handguns and now I pulled out my ns522 norinco and I’ve been putting holes down range at 100 yards ect. I still am going to keep using the .22 to practise my technical side of shooting and wrap my head around all things involved with long range shooting. I’ve been watching lots of informative videos ect. My questions are these tho as I just bought 1500 norinco 308 rounds without owning a 308

1) I’d like to get a high end optic 750-1500 range but I’d like something with as much magnification as possible as I like that sort of thing. My range is only good for 200-225 yards. Leaning toward vortex.

2) I’ve been told spend the money on a scope right away as you can “work up to being as good as your scope” and to enter at the midrange level with a gun as it’s easier to sell the gun and upgrade then it is to sell high end optics. That being said I understand I’m not going to be putting holes through holes at 200 with norinco ammo. I’d be happy just consistently hitting say a 3-4 inch gong. I’d like to get a gun that is more “tactical” so i can be a mall ninja at home and look like an operator at the range (I am kidding but not really, be kind). Any suggestions on a good platform to start ? And I know their are lots of upgrades that need to occur to stock guns to close up a grouping. I just want to have fun and put bullets down range and be “fairly accurate”. Ps no no I don’t want a mossberg night train. Lol. Even tho the look fits the bill. Thanks everyone for your input. .
Click to expand...

Given the distance of your range, if you really want to learn about LR shooting, dope, wind drift, ranging, scope tracking, etc, put a good scope on your rimfire and shoot that to 200+yds. With the right ammo, it may even group better then the norc ammo :)

When learning, the last thing you want is any system that you cannot trust. Bulk/surplus ammo will have enough inconsistencies that you will never really know the what, why and how. Like shooting something that causes a flinch cause "ya got it".... well, now that you have bad habits, you spend all your time trying to get rid of that.

You do not need a CF to learn all the technical stuff ... especially if you can't reach out to where the bullet will actually move around. If you want a CF to help with recoil management, sure but you are going to struggle with the data you see on target.

I believe you train as you compete. I really want to avoid anything that causes doubt in my skill set.

For optics, Athlon and Sightron and Delta cover a wide range of great optics that can fit into whatever end use you want. Glass quality matters far more then mag... so does reliable mechanicals. I lean on brands that offer all this without costing a left kidney

Good luck.

Jerry
 
RyoTHC said:
My savage 110 ultralight throws ragged cloverleaf 4 shot groups with factory ammo.. better with hand loads and a trained shooter I’m sure.

Absolutely no reason to pass on savages these days the higher end models are more accurate than most shooters ever will be these days.
Click to expand...

That's great for you that it's accurate. My savages shot well too, but if OPs budget allows, I would skip right over savage. I had 3 savages at one time, all shot great, but after a bad experience and even worse customer service from savage, I would never recommend them.
 
Before spending any money to plunge into the long range shooting game, contact your Provincial Rifle Association. Maybe go out to one of their range days and just have a look around and ask some questions. 300 yards/m is considered short range, 500-600 is mid-range and 800, 900 and 1000 are considered long range. Oh, and some guys and ladies do this with iron sighted rifles, no scope, no rest.
 
zelly said:
2) I’m not going to be putting holes through holes at 200 with norinco ammo. I’d be happy just consistently hitting say a 3-4 inch gong. I’d like to get a gun that is more “tactical” so i can be a mall ninja at home and look like an operator at the range.
Click to expand...

Op....for what your Wants List I'd consider a Savage Axis II Precision or step up to a 110 Precision. Either wearing a Bushnell 10X40 TAC OPTICS and blast away!
 
Side note, that NS522 will easily put rounds on a gong at 200 yards with good ammo! for me Center-X with a 50 yard zero is 8MIL to 200.
 
following. im in the same situation. just starting on the long range endeavor myself and putting together something i can get out with this spring. between 308 and 6.5 creedmor but leaning to 308 as i personally think itll help teach me more. local range is 500 but local guys told me there is a 1000+ yard backcountry area they side by side up to, so glad to have that option later on. im really all over the place with optics choices too. one day ill be looking at a new vortex pst gen 2, the next at a used NF or higher S&B. Athlon cronus also got my attention. i can see how its easy to fall into the "better gear" rabbit hole, so ill likely opt for something that gets me out there shooting vs waiting on a more expensive optic
 
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