Need help deciding which cartridge
- Thread starter Ruger007
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I don't understand how people have come to the definitive conclusion that a SRP will only "reliably ignite" so many grains of powder (38 grains) . I've had two .308 rifles , a R700 Milspec and currently a Savage Elite Precision and use both Lake City Match LRP brass as well as Lapua Palma SRP brass . I've loaded from 41.8 grains of IMR4064 up to 45.5 grains of Varget in both rifles with ZERO issues with SRP . I shoot from +20C - -25C with SRP brass and have NEVER had one single issue . Not one . I've used Winchester SRP , CCI BR4 , Federal 205 and 205M primers . Not one bit of difference . I shot the Savage Elite at 705 yards in a -5C snow squall yesterday . Results ? 10/10 on at 7" x 7" plate with the 175SMK over 42.6 4064 and 9/10 using the 168SMK over 43.5 4064 . SRP is powder limited ?? Total BS IMO .
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Tested this a couple of years back with my FTR rifle on an F class target at 900yds. The difference was substantial in the cold.. and it really wasn't that cold. Varget was the powder and Lapua brass was used. CCI450 and BR2's.... I competed with the BR2s and it put me on the podium.
I run the SRP in the summer and that put me on the podium too... temps were very warm.
YMMV.
Jerry
I run the SRP in the summer and that put me on the podium too... temps were very warm.
YMMV.
Jerry
As to Jerrys comment above, I would caution you to consider that his podium may have been in spite of using SRPs and not because of it. BTW, I have been on the podium plenty of times using LRPs in my 308.
I was one of the first to try the 6x47 Lapua with 115s and my initial load development was being done in the cold of January. I had persistent hang fires, and wild velocity spreads.
I tried every reasonable primer and powder combination and got it to where I could not audibly detect a hang fire on a good day, but the velocity was never consistent and changed significantly with minor temperature changes.
I spoke with Tubbs several times about it as he took a keen interested in my progress, and he discussed it with Obermeyer, I also discussed it with Salazar down at Camp Perry who had the same problem. The solution was to form my brass from 6XC to get large primers. Once I did that, I immediately dropped to single digit ES and never looked back.
Now, I know guys use SRPs in a 308 for F Class and seem to like it, but perhaps its because they use it in warm weather and perhaps because they are probably using Varget with a faster burn rate than appropriate for the 6x47L with 115s.
So what's the takeaway?
Guys like SRPs in a 308 to run higher pressures for F Class, but that's to maximize brass life and speed through excessive pressures in a cartridge restricted class of competition in the summer time.
I was getting 3000 FPS with 115s using LRPs in the 6x47L, which is all the speed anyone should need anyway.
So in the case of the 6x47L, why SRP? There is no need to run SRPs for the purpose of getting aggressive on speed (especially at the risk of wide ES), If you want more speed, go with 6CX or 6 Creed... Both having LRPs BTW.
As far as I'm concerned, the risk of inconsistent ignition and temperature sensitivity with SRPs far out weighs the advantage of running excessively hot loads with extended brass life.
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I don't know guys , the SRP works just fine for me . Maybe 4064 and Varget are fast enough burning that it doesn't matter as much in .308 . Now , I'm not saying that cold weather doesn't effect the ballistics , of course it does . But that goes for LRPs as well . But , as far as consistency goes , I see little to no difference and I would not hesitate to use either in whatever weather . Now , having said all of this , I am not attempting to compete at the National level nor am I trying to emulate the "stars" online . I shoot for fun and interest only , as I suspect the vast majority of shooters do . I do have a chrono and I do pay attention to the data that it provides , however , I don't lose my mind over ES and SD numbers . If SRP can provide 1/2 MOA at 700 yards in any weather , that works for me . Perhaps if I were shooting at 1000 yards all the time , I'd feel differently .
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
To clarify, I compete with LR and SR in the summer... LR only in the cool.
In the heat, I don't see any difference between the primers. I load for that tune and it all works.
When temps drop, I will run LR primers only and the targets don't lie... but we are looking at a rather small target way out there. If you get the hit rate for whatever target you want, at whatever distance you desire, then the combo is working for you.
YMMV
Jerry
In the heat, I don't see any difference between the primers. I load for that tune and it all works.
When temps drop, I will run LR primers only and the targets don't lie... but we are looking at a rather small target way out there. If you get the hit rate for whatever target you want, at whatever distance you desire, then the combo is working for you.
YMMV
Jerry
I just started reloading for one, a Rem VLS. Quite liking it so far, but you are correct, brass was a bit of a hunt. Nowhere near some of my other rifles, but noticeable. One ragged hole with Nosler RFD bullets a couple of days ago. Very impressed so far. - dan
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a little late to the party but here it goes - the OP probably has a couple more thousand of rounds before the barrel is roasted - if your most accurate load isn't accurate any longer then just increase the COAL - that may bring the group back to where they once was
also (you can tell i am bored at work) to determine if in fact your barrel isn't what it use to be - you have to remove the human element when shooting (ie: a solid gun rest that firmly secures the firearm in place all you do is pull the trigger
also (you can tell i am bored at work) to determine if in fact your barrel isn't what it use to be - you have to remove the human element when shooting (ie: a solid gun rest that firmly secures the firearm in place all you do is pull the trigger
I'm really curious why you use SRPs in a 308 given the level you shoot. What do you believe is gained over LRPs?
Don't say accuracy, because primers don't create accuracy, the barrel does. Primers affect ignition and thereby speed, which you don't seem to care about... See the contradiction here?
Is it for high pressures? Why would you need such pressures?
You are plenty supersonic at 700 yards and guys want speed to stay supersonic past 1000. Even 900 yards is easy to stay supersonic with a moderate pressure load and a good bullet. But 700?
I can almost understand it for a hard core National Team shooter, but not for a guy who isn't all in. I have a rifle on the bench in front of me right now as I type that belongs to a buddy on the Canadian F Class team and he runs SRPs in a 308, but the guy has been testing his a$$ off in Ottawa over the last several years (Along with the Chou brothers and a bunch of other guys). I get it in his case, (even if I don't agree why) but an average guy doing it is a mystery to me.
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I decided to try SRP brass really out of curiosity more then anything . I have no intention to compete anymore as those days are behind me . However , I do take shooting seriously and I do invest the time and effort to do it as well as possible both from a reloading / ammo development perspective as well as an execution of shooting fundamentals perspective . I am results driven and although I certainly pay attention to the technical details , I don't set "barriers" for myself based upon what is said online . Just because someone says it won't work , if it appears to have merit , I try it for myself and form my own conclusions based upon actual results . What have I seen with SRP brass compared to LRP brass ? Out to 705 yards ( all I have available currently ) , I see little to no difference in raw accuracy or consistency regardless of the weather . There are differences in the load , but , that is more the result of the case volume , metallurgy of the brass and the primer itself . 42.4 grains of 4064 with a 175 SMK in prepped LC Match brass ( BR2 ) offers virtually identical down range performance as 42.6 grains of 4064 ( same lot ) in prepped SRP Lapua Palma brass ( BR4 ) . Both will load rounds with under .001 TIR . So , why bother ? Well , I do see a definite difference in potential longevity of the case . After well over 30x reloads , the SRP brass is just like new . Neck tension is consistent and the primer pockets feel just like new . For comparison , FGMM brass developed sloppy primer pockets after 10x reloads or so and needed to be trimmed after every firing . For me , brass is an investment in both money and time . As everyone knows , it takes effort to fully prep brass to get it as good as it can be for a given rifle ( neck turning , fire forming etc ) and I want to have to do this the least amount possible . The LC 72 Match brass that I have been testing has been outstanding in every way , but , it is a scarce commodity . My stash of M118 sniper ammo is almost gone . Hence , the SRP brass tests . It is far easier to get . Will I rebuy SRP brass when the time comes ? Maybe , maybe not . I'll see what available at the time of need and go from there . There are other brands I'd like to test .
Also , it's important to exercise a bit of caution when discussing shooting issues with other , unknown , shooters and saying "given the level you shoot" . That is a pre judgement that is full of hazards . Even though I don't currently use the most expensive gear available , I might well be a far better shooter then you are . Not saying that I am , but , I've seen many people pre judging another and ending up with $hit on their face .
Also , it's important to exercise a bit of caution when discussing shooting issues with other , unknown , shooters and saying "given the level you shoot" . That is a pre judgement that is full of hazards . Even though I don't currently use the most expensive gear available , I might well be a far better shooter then you are . Not saying that I am , but , I've seen many people pre judging another and ending up with $hit on their face .
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FYI... My "given the level you shoot" comment was based upon the acceptance of your own statements earlier in this thread, not my own assumptions. Suddenly you're an expert... well... or might be.
Your lake city brass may well be good for more firings than most other brands of brass. That stuff is real hard in the base. If you've ever tried to swage a primer crimp with lake city, you can feel the difference.
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SRP -vs-LRP 308 brass.
There is only ONE manufacturer that did it right.
The ignition issue boils down to flash hole diameter.
Lapua missed by a mile by using an .062" diameter flash hole in their so called Palma brass.
Our temp cut-off is -20F for winter 8,9,1000yd matches.
which company is that? Alpha?
