Any Olympic trap shooters here ?

Thanks for your contribution to this thread Ghubert, very interesting dialogue.
I would love to get my boys into an Olympic discipline, be it trap or skeet, but it seems most people around these parts are too Americanized and the majority wins unfortunately.
 
Keystone Park in PA has just announce 10 hours ago (19/12/2020) a major development program to turn it into probably the most advance competition shooting range in North America. Upstaging Dallas and

The jungle whisper is telling me it will be and I won’t be a surprise there will be a World Cup there on the international calendar very soon.

Only 6 hours away from Toronto. Canada has missed its chances again.

Pan American Games was supposed to push TITS onto the international stage and they never made the headlines.

Shame ...
 
Thank you for your posts Mister Ghubert.

I have a question about gun fitting in the British Isles and the continent.

Are the methods used for gun fitting in the British Isles versus Western Europe versus Central Europe any different? I do believe the end objective of gun fittings are the same. Or are they the same?

I have gone to Michael Yardley's book "Gunfitting", Rollin Oswald's book "Stock Fitter's Bible", the Orvis book and the late Don Zutz. to find the answer and came up with no answer.

Do you have any opinions on Different methods of gun fitting Mister Ghubert?

Thank you,
 
FristLy I am not a qualified instructor. I am a competitor and I am biased toward trap so I can share what I know about trap.

My coaches are all Italian and they shoot from the core of the body. By that I mean the initiation of the whole movement which ever direction starts from the middle.

Your arms is a balancing ore and that’s it. The guiding force is from the body. Go to ISSF website and look at the Italian.

You will know what I mean. the majority of top trap shooters in the world and by that I mean the top 100 would have received training at some stage of their career in Italy. If you know what you are look for you can spot them miles away. Ask Cynthia, Susan and George Leary.

English shooter tend to use their arms a lot. This is very generalised and there is nothing wrong with that.

I have a great number of CURRENT great trap shooters in the 120’s from England and they manage some how but it comes down to ones control the 4 pressure points.

What do I mean by that

Butt
Grip
Cheek pressure
Foreend

Remember every single individual has a bias , right or left handed so there is an inbuilt advantage when moving towards that direction.

Can you see the disadvantages when using arms to control ones movement. ... I hope that’s QED

When you control your movement and initiate it from the centre you take away that bias.

More Problems now arises

When you teach a new shooter with no prior experience, this is easy. However if you try and precise that to a shooter with many years of bias and try to erase it out, it’s going to be a struggle. Most shooters I come across will try for a season and go back to their own ways because scores are not forthcoming.

This is why I say find a coach and put your faith in him or her and persevere. It will come but it takes time. No expectations .

There is just so much to share... I simply cannot put it all here without writing a book.

Lastly using your core to start the movement will need fitness. One simply do not see that walking around in shooting fields

Most people are simply unfit in their core muscles to shoot this way.

Again when the scores don’t come after a few weeks they give up

To conclude. Theses are the 2 styles in vogue at the moment.

I cannot comment on skeet because I do not compete in it.

Coming back to Canada, virtually nobody understands this at all. Anything goes at the moment.

Now shooting ata , angles are narrow and terminal velocities are low.
Scores are dropped usually because of psychological issues rather than technical issues.

When you start shooting 45 degree targets in Olympic then stock fitment will be different because of the stretch one needs.

Laterally you need 45 plus FOLLOW THROUGH (most people ignores that)
Vertically you need to reach 3m targets plus follow through.

Can you see where I am going ...

So what I would suggest is to get a stock fitted and then shoot competitions. Remember what I said previously, muscle tension in competitions are different when shooting with your mates.

I remember I got caught out in Kuwait and dropped scores when they start using pop up remote tv cameras on me. My tension increased and my stock just felt alien.

Experience counts, it will take years to be sensitive and understand what works for you and what does not. That’s where a good coach comes in.

Stock fitting is an art form and cannot be taught easily or done overnight.

I hope I have addressed what you are looking for.

Glad to share

Again I must stressed , I am not qualified to coach and I am not a coach. Just sharing what I know and that’s not a lot.
 
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By the way Michael Yardley whom I know and respect a lot is not a clay competitor. He shoots game and coaches sporting. So following what he said in his book will not get you what you need or want.

Again it’s all about continuation. When you get a stock made in Italy, my stock maker is also a competitor.
Can you imagine, he made my stock and then we went to lonato and shot a 50 bird competitions together. Then he said afterwards, let’s go back to the workshop.I know what you need......

This is the difference I am trying to preach. It’s like going to see your doctor. He understand you better than what you can express ....again QED
 
Mister Ghubert: Am I correct that the Italian shooting method requires a very quiet upper body rotating from a core over a solid bottom body? The goal is to conserve body movement until required.

If that is what you are describing, I will assume you are also an excellent alpine skier. Do not laugh. Susan is an excellent alpine skier. I am not making fun of you or Susan.

What you describe is the Austrian/Italian worldwide method of basic alpine ski instruction.

I believe that I understand your method.

Butt
Grip
Cheek pressure
Fore end

Also, The barber who cuts my hair is a crazy Milano soccer fan. He always try to play a poor Terra.;) He told me the industries of the Val Trompia region have been severely affected by that covid virus. Probably the worst in Italy. I hope the industries are recovering well in the north.

Thanks again.
 
Yes, val trompia is a bit like Yonge street. About 3 miles from ground level to the top. You can get everything you need there in relation to shooting. Most are little workshops. You can start from the bottom and by the time you get to the top you can build a new gun. Rifle , pistol or shotgun. Serious ...

I don’t understand what you mean by quiet but if you imagine this

It’s about leverage the closer you are to the fulcrum the less you need to move to achieve the distance. So yes there is little movement in general. However the force to initiate the movement is greater because you are near or at the fulcrum. Hence the shooter needs to be fairly fit in a specific way.

I have seen competititors going to the gym and pumping muscles .... in fact that’s the last thing needed. Because invariably you are developing the wrong muscles and also you are altering your stcok requirement by putting on muscle mass.

Does that make sense ?
I hope I am not boring people here.
Seems like a monologue here
 
Want to hear a real shooting story ?

2004 ATHENS olympics. One of my best friend made it shooting for Malaysia.
He loves food so he made sure he arrived 14 days before the opening - which is the earliest they will accept entrants.

Everyday he goes to the canteen and savours food from all around the world and it’s FREE.

He is shaped like a barrel because he enjoys his food.

Please don’t ask how does not keep his stock fitment because it still baffles all of us.

After about a week, other athletics started to arrive and 2 Bulgarian shot putters approvach my friend.
‘ my friend are you in shot putting ? They looked at his dog tag which only says “Athelete”
My friend says no,I don’t know anything about track and field’
Then they asked you certainly shaped like a shot putter. Never mind. Do you know where the gym is ?

Joking my shooting friend said I have never been to the gym and walked away

Anyway as he was walking back to his apartment he was arrested by security because the Bulgarians reported him as an imposter.

Can you imagine trying to convince the security people that you made it to the olympics and you have never been to a gym ?

There you are . .... real people ...real story

Inside the Olympic village they have their own newspaper and my friend made the front page on day one in 2004.

Headline

The only Olympic athlete who has never been to a gym in his whole career
 
Ghubert said:
Did they not change to Laporte after they received funds for the pan American games ?
Do you know George Leary ? Any news about his recent tracks ? Do sort of lost track of each other somehow ...

Since we are on the same frequency what do think of the targets at tits. I know I know lots of politics but when the boys goes abroad they really get a shock when they throw regulation targets ...
For 4 seasons I trained monthly at Lonato and my goddess there is no mucking around there.
Anyway I have retired from competition after London so only memories now.
Click to expand...

George was up here for a while working for Acklands Granger, I knew him before his Olympic run, my father ( who was the Shooting Sports development manager for C.I.L. at the time)helped his father set up Honey Locust, and we would run into each other at the various trap clubs over the years. Darned near floored me when the prez of our gun club asked me if I knew him.
We met up at a restaurant and talked each other silly for 2 hours LOL!
George is retired now , and I think he is in Airdrie Alberta.
Cat
 
I have shot International (Olympic) trap a few times at the Winnipeg Trap and Skeet club. We have two bunkers available as well as two International Skeet fields along with American Trap & Skeet fields and a 5-stand setup.
 
When I worked at CIL ammo R & D in Brownsburg, a round of trap cost $1.00 For the $1, I got a shotgun (Browning o/u) 25 birds and all the ammo I wanted. I should have shot several times a day, every day, But I did not. I could have learned to be a good trap shooter. I only shot occasionally, and would average around 23 birds.

I tried Olympic trap - once. I got 2 birds.
 
Shooting is likely to be out of the olympics after Los Angeles so technically youngsters have 6 years left to get the last shooting medals back for Canada.

Clock is tickling
 
Ghubert said:
Shooting is likely to be out of the olympics after Los Angeles so technically youngsters have 6 years left to get the last shooting medals back for Canada.

Clock is tickling
Click to expand...

Is Olympic glory the driving force behind International Skeet and Trap shooting ? Will ISSF shotgun sports decline once the events are no longer part of the Olympics ?
 
If you ask all competitors that’s have been part of the Olympic family,

being eliminated from the schedule is the best thing for the sport.

No more politics

Favouritism - he or she is by prodigy so I will make sure he/she has a place in the team

Fight for funding - untold amount of shenanigans over the years

Doping because of the hunger for success

Lack of prime time Television rights has always been the driving force getting shooting sports being eliminated.

Behind the background this elimination process has been going on since 2000

Then you have tree huggers and Greta adding fuel to fire .... it’s inevitable

Canada deserve better and can do it but there is so much apathy I have come across and self defeatism.

I remember practicing before a world championship and as you know you need 6 for a full squad for trap.

Somehow we only had 5 i.e. one short, then somebody yelled out - let’s get the Canadian team to fill in - that’s the general consensus in the real world.

Now I am settled and retired here and I really want to help but the wall is bigger than the one trump is building.

Enough ranting merry Christmas to you all.
 
No doubt you are fighting a substantial headwind when it comes to International shotgun sports. The only growth I see in my area is Sporting. Even American Trap and Skeet are fading and they are way more available.
 
Westward1 said:
No doubt you are fighting a substantial headwind when it comes to International shotgun sports. The only growth I see in my area is Sporting. Even American Trap and Skeet are fading and they are way more available.
Click to expand...

The learning curve is much shorter with sporting, young professionals can miss one target out of every 4 and still be close to the top of the pac.
 
Well if somebody is spending 20+ bucks a round shooting clay, you want to see dead birds on the ground.

Can be disheartening when you only hit a few especially in front of other shooters

My main coach owned the main club I belonged to and before the start of game season we always see a rush of game shooters coming in to tune up.

He used to ask me to help and it’s amazing what we come across.

I remember helping a shooter who has been shooting driven game for 20+ years and he said I always have an issue with birds in a certain angle.

So I agree to go out with him and guess what for over 20 years he has been shooting a gun with the wrong cast.

He is left handed.

And he has been paying something like 1500 bucks a day shooting game for 20+ years.

Sporting is a social game, other than FITASC , trajectories are predictable and you can always avoid targets you have difficulty with.
 
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