Full Length Sizing for LR precision shooting
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Munkey1973
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- Regina, SK
In my very early days of reloading for F Class T/R I used to neck size only with a Lee Collett Die.
After 3 or 4 reloads, the cartridges started to become very difficult to chamber, and it seemed that my accuracy decreased greatly.
Then I started to Full Length Resize (just enough to move shoulders back by 0.003).
More accurate and dependable.
Had many qualified folks tell me to do it this way and I didn't listen to them.
After 3 or 4 reloads, the cartridges started to become very difficult to chamber, and it seemed that my accuracy decreased greatly.
Then I started to Full Length Resize (just enough to move shoulders back by 0.003).
More accurate and dependable.
Had many qualified folks tell me to do it this way and I didn't listen to them.
The shoulders should always be set back if neck sizing in my opinions.
For certain calibers, I still use the redding body die and lee collet die combination.
For others and my new favourite way, a FLS honed die with expander ball removed, and expanding die combo.
For certain calibers, I still use the redding body die and lee collet die combination.
For others and my new favourite way, a FLS honed die with expander ball removed, and expanding die combo.
Mystic Precision
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- Location
- Summerland, BC
Size the brass to fit the chamber... PROPERLY. Size the brass to suit the type of rifle and its operation.
Chambers vary so one size doesn't fit all... so you may end up using a variety of dies depending on the rifle and chamber involved
Jerry
Chambers vary so one size doesn't fit all... so you may end up using a variety of dies depending on the rifle and chamber involved
Jerry
So you hone the neck of a regular FLS die so it bumps the shoulder and
resizes the neck slightly so the expander die gives you back the neck tension you like? Could a Lee collet die be used for neck tension?
In this cartridges case (my 6.5x47 Lapua), I prefer not to use Lee collet die as this casing produces good donuts, brass flows in the collet gaps of the lee collet die when used with this caliber.
I use a Forster FLS die which can be purchased directly off their site pre-honed. You just got to specify the exterior neck dia needed.
I am set up so the neck is only resized 1 thou smaller than my expanding mandrel.
Before expanding I also dip the neck in dry graphite lube.
So having only 1 thou to expand to, and being well lubed, the expander die goes in with very small resistance.
Which I have found to not induce runout with expanding die this way.
I am no expert by the way, just doing things as I have read on the internet.
Please make your own research before clicking the buy now button.
But since going Forster honed die, redding graphite dry neck lube, 21st century expander, life just got way easier and way more accurate for my 6.5x47 Lapua!
Will soon give my .308 this treatment to see how well (or not) it likes it.
Edit : I now have a Forster FLS die collection in the same caliber, with different neck specs. Not necessary, but combined with my 21st century mendrel kit I love to be able to tune the neck exactly like I want it.
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A long time ago I experimented with neck sizing only. You can get away with it for quite a few firings as long as the powder charge is very low. Eventually the cases get tight in the chamber and need to be full length sized. Hopefully by that time the cases have not work hardened to the point they won't size. They don't all get tight at the same number of firings with some tighter than other. A mix of tight and loose chambering cases shoot to different places on the target. Neck sized cases cannot handle as much powder as full length sized cases as far as pressure signs. I think its because some powder is burned to create the pressure to expand a full length sized case to the chamber where the neck sized case is already expanded to the chamber. On Remington 700's and custom actions with that type of firing system, I remove the firing pin/cocking piece and try each case in the chamber after sizing. Using a Redding Type S full length die and shims. If the bolt handle drops on a case, the shoulder is bumped too far. A tight case gets sized again without the neck bushing because if you size the neck twice it grips the bullet harder causing other problems. The object is to size the cases so they all go in the gun feeling the same. Too tight upsets the gun in the bags, galls the locking lugs and I think stresses the action effecting barrel vibration. Too loose and the cases stretch and won't last long before separating.
depending on what die setup I have for that specific caliber I bump size about .002-3 using a full length bushing die to give me .0015-.002 thou of neck tension. If I don't have a bushing for that caliber ill then use a lee collet neck die to set my neck tension.
I neck size only with a Lee collet die. I'm on 6+ firings and I haven't had to bump the shoulder back yet and I'm at about a max load on my rifle (.308 win). Cases are 'snug' but the bolt closes with no real effort still.
I have noticed that with virgin/FL sized brass, I need 0.3gr more powder than with neck sized brass to achieve the same velocity/accuracy.
Aside from that, I haven't noticed any real difference in accuracy, and I get very little case stretch.
The main thing I like is not having to lube cases
I have noticed that with virgin/FL sized brass, I need 0.3gr more powder than with neck sized brass to achieve the same velocity/accuracy.
Aside from that, I haven't noticed any real difference in accuracy, and I get very little case stretch.
The main thing I like is not having to lube cases
All I use now are Whiddens. FL sizers with bushings. No problem producing ammo that's single digits SD's (generally SD of 5 or less over 10+ shot strings) and tiny groups.
I try to skip reloading steps that have very little performance benefit and are time consuming. With the quality of components, quality of reloading gear, and the quality of gunsmithing these days, it's almost hard to produce bad shooting ammo.
Yeah that's the video I saw that caught my attention.
I like this idea.
Here's what I'm thinking. Set the shoulder back .002" using my Redding neck sizing die with no expander button. At the same time use a neck bushing that gives me .001" under the mandrel size of the XXICSI expander die I have. Then use that to give me my neck tension. Anything wrong with this plan?
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
I see nothing wrong with this at all.
Excellent plan actually, as I do precisely this method for my 308 Win F Class Rifle, I even use the same Dies.
I am setting the shoulders back about 0.003 though.
I am assuming that you meant to say Redding FL Bushing Die ?
And that XXICSI is shorthand for 21st Century Expander ?
Truth to this. I have 2 308's. One with a IBI barrel and another with a Remington barrel. The IBI gets a Redding die as it just sizes it enough to chamber and bump back .002. The Remington get a RCBS die. As the Redding makes it to loose. I found that annealing made more of a difference than neck sizing.
Top long range shooters do not simply full length resize. The best of them use custom sizing dies. Erik Cortina interviews Speedy where Speedy speaks of custom sizing dies and Erik blows it off. The video above is not the video I'm speaking of... Even in the video above you can see a few guys hesitate because they are just not elaborating that they use custom sizing dies. If you pay close attention you will notice.
These dies are tuned to the owners chambering reamer.
The dies are tuned so the body diameter is sized specifically to only minimally resize the side wall.
The die is set to just sniff at the shoulder, just barely enough.
The end goal, no matter who says what is to minimize the energy loss that is caused by blowing the case out to the side walls of the chamber. The more energy lost to blowing out the side wall the more velocity spread you will have.
This is based on the assumption that you have a competition grade chamber... Not some sloppy factory chamber.
If you have a sloppy factory chamber, you will likely not realize the benefit of most of what a top long range competitive shooter will do.
Erik Cortina is doing the shooting world a disservice by offering a lot of bad advice. My Advice is to exercise caution when watching his videos. He is sponsored by Lapua and is benefited from bragging that up for one thing, but he offers a lot of advice that applys to one specific situation and out of his ignorance attempts to project that onto every other variation. If you understand the subject, you will scoff at most of his content.
The only real good advice from Erik is sizing the brass enough so you don't gall your lugs. That is good practical advice. It's just not the whole story.
Beyond that is chamber design and that's a whole big part of how a rifle and bullet will perform. Its huge.
These dies are tuned to the owners chambering reamer.
The dies are tuned so the body diameter is sized specifically to only minimally resize the side wall.
The die is set to just sniff at the shoulder, just barely enough.
The end goal, no matter who says what is to minimize the energy loss that is caused by blowing the case out to the side walls of the chamber. The more energy lost to blowing out the side wall the more velocity spread you will have.
This is based on the assumption that you have a competition grade chamber... Not some sloppy factory chamber.
If you have a sloppy factory chamber, you will likely not realize the benefit of most of what a top long range competitive shooter will do.
Erik Cortina is doing the shooting world a disservice by offering a lot of bad advice. My Advice is to exercise caution when watching his videos. He is sponsored by Lapua and is benefited from bragging that up for one thing, but he offers a lot of advice that applys to one specific situation and out of his ignorance attempts to project that onto every other variation. If you understand the subject, you will scoff at most of his content.
The only real good advice from Erik is sizing the brass enough so you don't gall your lugs. That is good practical advice. It's just not the whole story.
Beyond that is chamber design and that's a whole big part of how a rifle and bullet will perform. Its huge.
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