How to mix powder lots?

In about 45 years of reloading, all I ever did was as Brassman suggests - use up one jug, and open the next. Never worried about "lot numbers" or paid much attention to it. I never seemed to have issues with rounds for deer hunting. But, I now have an acquaintance coaching me for loading up a rifle for longer range "gong" shooting - apparently "mixing powder lots so do not have to re-work up load" is the thing to do. Hence my query about how is that done, to know they are actually mixed, as opposed to just all poured into the same container.

When I first started hand loading, going to the LGS and picking up a pound of powder, was a hit and miss affair. Same for components.

That was a time when any rifle shooting consistent 2-3 inch groups was considered accurate. To say that bullet jackets were a consistent thickness all the way around or over their length, meant they could vary as much as fifteen thousandths in and still be acceptable.

Powder lots could vary so much from one lot to the next, that one lot would be safe at a certain charge and the next was showing high pressure or low pressures.

Just over 50 years ago, the powder available was often repackaged surplus, left over from WWII and the Korean War.

The Viet Nam War was gobbling up most of the newly made powders.

In Canada, were lucky because some of the powders available were made here, but quality control wasn't tight.

My first experience with mixing different lot numbers to get consistent burn rates over relatively large amounts of powder, was from a fellow working for Kesselring's/Burlington, Washington. I was just getting serious about accuracy.

Kesselring's was the only place that I could get custom swaged bullets, which today wouldn't be considered match quality. Not only that, they had a shooting range behind the store. The range was great, because I could actually try out some of the bullets and powder before purchasing them.

When you purchased powder, there were bins of the different powders they had available. You scooped out as much as you wanted into a brown paper bag and were charged by the weight.

When I spoke with the fellow, in charge of the powder and components for match shooting, he very proudly stated that the powders in the bins were some of the most consistent I would likely be able to find anywhere. Then he went on to explain how they brought in the powder in 50 pound kegs and mixed them all together, like Ganderite mentioned in a cement mixer before putting them into the hoppers for the bins.

I hadn't even considered it, I was close to the bottom of the learning curve back then. After speaking to the fellow, who really knew his stuff, I was convinced.

Understand, I was quit spoiled when it came to powder. I purchased large quantities of surplus powder directly from Hodgdon. Usually in 25 pound laminated and coated paper containers, but if they weren't available, I took the 50 pound drums. It was available in larger drums as well, but I had to be able to unload it by hand.

The bigger the drums, the cheaper it was.

I've been blending different lots of the same powder for close to 50 years and never thought anything of it. WHY?? It's perfectly safe, as long as you don't mix powders of different designations.

Everything utilized for hand loading has gotten better over the decades. Cannister grade powders are very consistent between lots, but not always.

With the invention of the Juenke thickness guage, which was a transducer that measured thickness in metal tubing and accurate to within .001 in. It was based on the transducers used for, I believe, were used for measuring the thickness of nuclear rods.

That was around 1980.

Everything started to really change as far as accuracy was concerned with the use of the Juenke tester to make bullet jackets and brass cases.

That's when the companies producing cartridge powders had to up their end game and make their powder burn rates more consistent from lot to lot. Cannister grade powders, which most people use, are better now than they've ever been IMHO. Still, every once in a while, the reloader gets a surprise that they can't explain.

Maybe it's just an old habit, but I've been blending different lots of the same powder for a long time and likely will always do so. I have recipes that I haven't changed over 30 years for the same rifle, if I have enough bullets to continue with that load. Changing bullet lots can and does make a difference, even though the product number on the box is the same.

Primers can throw a wrench into things as well.

I'll stop now. I've gotten off topic. Still it's related as far as consistency goes.
 
I am willing to try the "mixing the lots" thing. You said you mixed 11 pounds of various lots of IMR 4831 - how did you do that?

I know this wasn't directed at me. Just pour them all into one bowl or container large enough to be able to mix them all together. It's not difficult and no more information is needed.

I like to use a large wooden spoon, some folks use egg whiskers for mixing. One fellow I know, uses the drum from a large rock tumbler. Whatever works for you.

It doesn't take a lot of mixing to get the job done.
 
I am willing to try the "mixing the lots" thing. You said you mixed 11 pounds of various lots of IMR 4831 - how did you do that?

Pour it all into a clean plastic container, 20 liter pail, plastic tote etc. Wooden spoon, plastic spoon doesn't matter. I would do it outside. You don't have to go overboard on the mixing and beat the coating off the powder. Shake it around and just make sure its all combined.
 
I was tongue in cheek. I use the cement mixer for tumbling brass.

I once had to mix several hundred pounds of powder. It had been contaminated with some pistol powder. By mixing it, the contamination was not an issue. I bought a new steel garbage can and used that to mix each batch of powder.

You have too much time. You should maybe get a hobby. ;-)
 
Im sure he's somewhat Tounge in cheeking that comment for sure.....

Cement mixer..... ok, hes going Large.

Steel bowl an egg whispers....... ok hes doing a normal quantity of mix an match small cartons of powder mix... lol

Its ganderite......i actually doubt hes joking. Wouldn't really want to be a city lot next door neighbour to him in forest fire season.
 
When I first started hand loading, going to the LGS and picking up a pound of powder, was a hit and miss affair. Same for components.

That was a time when any rifle shooting consistent 2-3 inch groups was considered accurate. To say that bullet jackets were a consistent thickness all the way around or over their length, meant they could vary as much as fifteen thousandths in and still be acceptable.

Powder lots could vary so much from one lot to the next, that one lot would be safe at a certain charge and the next was showing high pressure or low pressures.

Just over 50 years ago, the powder available was often repackaged surplus, left over from WWII and the Korean War.

The Viet Nam War was gobbling up most of the newly made powders.

In Canada, were lucky because some of the powders available were made here, but quality control wasn't tight.

My first experience with mixing different lot numbers to get consistent burn rates over relatively large amounts of powder, was from a fellow working for Kesselring's/Burlington, Washington. I was just getting serious about accuracy.

Kesselring's was the only place that I could get custom swaged bullets, which today wouldn't be considered match quality. Not only that, they had a shooting range behind the store. The range was great, because I could actually try out some of the bullets and powder before purchasing them.

When you purchased powder, there were bins of the different powders they had available. You scooped out as much as you wanted into a brown paper bag and were charged by the weight.

When I spoke with the fellow, in charge of the powder and components for match shooting, he very proudly stated that the powders in the bins were some of the most consistent I would likely be able to find anywhere. Then he went on to explain how they brought in the powder in 50 pound kegs and mixed them all together, like Ganderite mentioned in a cement mixer before putting them into the hoppers for the bins.

I hadn't even considered it, I was close to the bottom of the learning curve back then. After speaking to the fellow, who really knew his stuff, I was convinced.

Understand, I was quit spoiled when it came to powder. I purchased large quantities of surplus powder directly from Hodgdon. Usually in 25 pound laminated and coated paper containers, but if they weren't available, I took the 50 pound drums. It was available in larger drums as well, but I had to be able to unload it by hand.

The bigger the drums, the cheaper it was.

I've been blending different lots of the same powder for close to 50 years and never thought anything of it. WHY?? It's perfectly safe, as long as you don't mix powders of different designations.

Everything utilized for hand loading has gotten better over the decades. Cannister grade powders are very consistent between lots, but not always.

With the invention of the Juenke thickness guage, which was a transducer that measured thickness in metal tubing and accurate to within .001 in. It was based on the transducers used for, I believe, were used for measuring the thickness of nuclear rods.

That was around 1980.

Everything started to really change as far as accuracy was concerned with the use of the Juenke tester to make bullet jackets and brass cases.

That's when the companies producing cartridge powders had to up their end game and make their powder burn rates more consistent from lot to lot. Cannister grade powders, which most people use, are better now than they've ever been IMHO. Still, every once in a while, the reloader gets a surprise that they can't explain.

Maybe it's just an old habit, but I've been blending different lots of the same powder for a long time and likely will always do so. I have recipes that I haven't changed over 30 years for the same rifle, if I have enough bullets to continue with that load. Changing bullet lots can and does make a difference, even though the product number on the box is the same.

Primers can throw a wrench into things as well.

I'll stop now. I've gotten off topic. Still it's related as far as consistency goes.

Kesselrings.....it was worth the drive when I lived in Langley. Bulk bins of good old WW rifle brass, scoop some up into a brown bag they weighed it to get #. Had some pretty obscure calibers.
 
Another Kesselrings fan. It was truly a man's toy store. I bought powders so cheap there,
and like BH mentioned, they were consistent because they mixed lots before putting them
out for sale. I bought a bunch of Nosler Partition seconds for $8/50. Brass in big barrels too.
weighed, not counted when you bought. This is once where we can dream about the Good
old days, lol. Dave.
 
I don’t mix powder. I use the bottle until empty. Why mix ? To save a few inches of storage space ?
If find it amazing that you even ask the question..just pour one bottle into the other - rotate it a few time and thats it.

It is just a matter of time guys doing this, will mix different powder and end up with a kaboom...

You just give me another reason not to buy any powder from folks.
 
The lot to lot variance is not worth the bother UNLESS you are running the ragged edge of high pressure, or are just doing it for the exercise. IMO.

There are shooters here who can see the difference on paper. Some truly amazing shooters. Well, that's not me, and I think it's not most of us. If I change lot numbers I don't rework anything, and I see no difference.
 
You could throw all 3 jugs into a vibratory case cleaner and turn it on for 5 minutes. Would be well mixed. Wouldn't go to such extremes myself, it's not rocket science...............well small rockets maybe.
 
John Y Cannuck - that is pretty much where I am at. I have not mixed the containers, yet. I started hand loading for my 308 Win in about 1976 - first with W-748, then IMR 4064, then changed to RL-15 with 165 grain bullets. I used maybe 6 or 8 containers over the years - never owned more than one at a time - easy to get more - when one got low, drive to store and get another. Never changed my loading recipe. Shot many deer with that. A correspondent tells me that in his bench-rest shooting days, he would see up to 4 grains difference among lots of RL-15 to maintain his "optimum" loading - he describes that powder as the most variable that he experienced, lot-to-lot. I am not so sure that he mixed lots, so much as re-worked his optimum load for each new jug. It is the "discussions" on-line that pointed out the issue to me - and then, it was not, and still is not, clear how powder can be mixed to know that the first, 400th and 800th "throw" contains equal portions of each of the various lots. Rolling a container around the floor and calling that "mixed" seems to be "busy work" to get something done...

As is, I have 7 one pound containers of Varget - 3 x one lot, 2 x another lot, and 2 x a third lot number. and an 8th partial one pound container with a fourth lot number.
 
The lot to lot variance is not worth the bother UNLESS you are running the ragged edge of high pressure, or are just doing it for the exercise. IMO.

There are shooters here who can see the difference on paper. Some truly amazing shooters. Well, that's not me, and I think it's not most of us. If I change lot numbers I don't rework anything, and I see no difference.

You must not use Varget?

I’ve had lot to lot differences that were so great I had to rework my load, I’m talking about a .3-.5 Moa increase in groups. But Varget is the only powder I’ve seen with that kind of swing, for my hunting rifles I don’t bother mixing lots, and if powder ever becomes readily available again, I’ll just start buying Varget in the 8 lb containers.
 
Ha! - had not got to tweezer idea - but was thinking tablespoon or two from each one pound jug, in turn, to get the various lots actually distributed among each other, then stir up in big bowl? Then back into the one pound containers? I can not see the little granules continuing to mix up once motion stops - I guess thinking like older cans of paint - multiple layers - have to really mix well to get one colour top to bottom, else first part of wall different colour than last part of wall. But should be a "well known how to do" procedure for granules, not fluids - so many comments about doing it and making a "difference"?
 
I just mix it up in a bowl with a wood spoon and pour it back in the containers.

I usually load up 100 rounds at a time for my target rifles. On each batch I check my velocities and group sizes with a 5 round group at 200 or 300 yards. Velocities are clocked with a Labradar. If I wasn’t getting a good blend in the powder it would show up at this point.

I’m a little OCD so I can relate to wanting perfection, but I think you’re overthinking this. I’ve blended large batches of granular fertilizer and Ive found it takes very little disruption to get an even mix, so I would think a few lbs of gun powder is going to mix at least as evenly as a few tons of fert.
 
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