Quickest and most efficient load dev technique?

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MartyK2500

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With the years I have developed excellent loads in most my rifles.
Something I have in common with all of them, it's always been a slow and component burning process for me.
Right now I have received an email that my first ever Fclass FTR rifle is completed, and want to spend as little time and/or barrel burning to just get it shooting and get it on target sub 1/3moa ASAP.

What load dev technique do serious shooters use?
I have a labradar, AD FX120, Forster MIC seating dies, a Mitutoyo caliper with bullet comparators among many other tools.
We can say I have the equipment to guarantee consistency, I just don't have the knowledge for a quick and easy tune method.

To put things in context, I use a modified OCW to find my powder load.
I seat 20 thou off the JAM, load in 0.3gn increments (for .308) and shoot 3 shot groups at 200M.
Once I find the general area I wish to play in, in another range visit I load in 0.2gn increments with 5 shot groups at 200M.

With powder tune in hand, I then use the Cortina seat depth tune in my way once again.
Go into JAM +20, then +3 thou increments.
3 shot groups to find the general area.
Then on yet another range visit, I use the area that looks the best and get into 5 shot groups at 200M to confirm the load.


I do get nice results in general, but the whole process doesn't go under 100 rounds.
And on certain setups, with the season change certain loads don't hold for 4 seasons and require a new tune up for the season burning yet again some components/barrel life.

So how would you proceed to get a 30'' FTR shooting 200 SMKs ASAP, in a load that hold the test of time and temp changes, requiring only a 3 thou longer COAL each 200-250 rounds or when needed?
 
Load some rounds 2 to 5 gr apart shoot them record velocity find a node where you get a few where the velocity didn't jump up much. Load a few up with those charges and verify your velocity node. Load up some rounds at that verified velocity adjusting your seating depths depths and shoot for groups
 
I do a 300-400 yd ladder & watch the velocity for flat spots - then once you have some numbers to work with, shoot some groups around those flat spots - then play with seat depth once you find your load (SMK's usually like 10-30 jump in almost all the rifles I have tried them in) - Keep an eye on velocity here too - lowest spread usually wins - can usually get'er done well under 50 shots....then stretch the distance and verify - done! super refined at less than 100 shots.
I use fully prepped brass from the start - I feel it eliminates that variable
 
I don’t have much to add other than using Quickload and OBT. You can make a reasonable estimate for what velocity your accuracy node will be. Using this reduces the amount of rounds fired to find the OCW.
 
Marty stay with what works. You have a solid plan there already. Use your LR and find the flat spot. Then OCW around there. Once done then like you said seating depth test in 3 thou. Remember your barrel will speed up on you though, so your data might change a bit, or you may have to drop slightly in your powder later.
 
coleman1495 said:
I don’t have much to add other than using Quickload and OBT. You can make a reasonable estimate for what velocity your accuracy node will be. Using this reduces the amount of rounds fired to find the OCW.
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Lead hammer said:
Marty stay with what works. You have a solid plan there already. Use your LR and find the flat spot. Then OCW around there. Once done then like you said seating depth test in 3 thou. Remember your barrel will speed up on you though, so your data might change a bit, or you may have to drop slightly in your powder later.
Click to expand...

That’s how I do it, it works well. I’m usually done development with 50 rounds down the tube, the last 15 rounds being 3, 5 shot groups at 300 yards (hunting rifles) or 600 yards (target rifles) to confirm the load.
 
coyoteking said:
That’s how I do it, it works well. I’m usually done development with 50 rounds down the tube, the last 15 rounds being 3, 5 shot groups at 300 yards (hunting rifles) or 600 yards (target rifles) to confirm the load.
Click to expand...
I like the seating depth test at 300. It's always damn windy

Suther
OCW optimal charge weight ( powder )
OBT optimal barrel time............pretty sure.
OSD optimal seating depth
 
Thanks all for the replies.
Since nothing has reopened yet, and am still stuck to my traditional 200M berm, I am curious to try the quickload/OBT tuning method.
If all else fails I can always go back to my 100-120 round extended load dev, but if it works I would be curious to re-run my other rifles through the quickload/OBT method and see if it does the same.

There are so many articles and youtube videos scattered around on this subject.
Can someone link one in particular that's deemed to be of value for learning this?

Accurate shooter which is a source I have often used in my reloading ''career'', seem to have a nice quickload tutorial I will use once I get the program.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/test-quickload-review/
 
Marty, what you are describing sounds reasonable.

My advice is to completely disregard any load development ladder test advice that suggests distance past 200 yards... Thats what you do AFTER load development.

I suggest that you crank out about 3 shots per powder charge in increments of no more than 1/2 grain. Use a seating depth that is maybe 0.010 short of hard jam.

Shoot them on a calm day starting from lowest to highest at 100 yards. Why 100? To minimize the effect of atmospheric changes that will corrupt your results. Ideally a calm and overcast day, or just as a fog clears.

What you are looking for here is a pattern in any shift in the point of impact. If you are lucky there wont be a significant POI shift as the load changes. Most are not so lucky.

You will usually find the POI will oscillate from one point to another such as low left to high right. If this is the case, disregard any loads that are tweeners. Those will likely string along that oscillation line.

Focus on the extreme POIs. That will identify your best velocity nodes.

After that, using your favs... start adjusting seating depth, pretty much the same way... groups of 3 at various OAL.

Find what seating depth provides the most consistent velocity with the smallest groups.

You will likely find that too much jump is not very accurate and has a wide velocity spread... As you move forward, the velocity spreads will come down as accuracy improves.

You may find that as you get closer to a hard jam, velocity spreads open up again as accuracy goes south. May is the key word here... Prove it to yourself. Hard jam might be fine, or may depend on how much neck tension you have. Personally for F Class, the less neck tension I have the better. Why? Variation in neck tension is relating to the amount of neck tension. Less neck tension will have the lowest variation in neck tension.

After that, sure go out to extended distances with your best loads... But don't blame your loads if you don't beat the hell out of the V Bull. The rest is in learning about wind and light refraction.... and never forget about light refraction. It's why guys hit the V Bull 3 shots in a row, and then a cloud comes by and everyone starts getting 5s for a few shots.

One more thing.... Try to avoid experimenting will too many different bullets and powders. I probably have 4,000 projectiles that I bought for testing 100 of this and 200 of that... they accumulate over the years because once I have a bullet I like, I stop shooting the others and they just never get used up. Powders can be the same way.
 
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Maple57 said:
Marty, what you are describing sounds reasonable.

My advice is to completely disregard any load development ladder test advice that suggests distance past 200 yards... Thats what you do AFTER load development.

I suggest that you crank out about 3 shots per powder charge in increments of no more than 1/2 grain. Use a seating depth that is maybe 0.010 short of hard jam.

Shoot them on a calm day starting from lowest to highest at 100 yards. Why 100? To minimize the effect of atmospheric changes that will corrupt your results. Ideally a calm and overcast day, or just as a fog clears.

What you are looking for here is a pattern in any shift in the point of impact. If you are lucky there wont be a significant POI shift as the load changes. Most are not so lucky.

You will usually find the POI will oscillate from one point to another such as low left to high right. If this is the case, disregard any loads that are tweeners. Those will likely string along that oscillation line.

Focus on the extreme POIs. That will identify your best velocity nodes.

After that, using your favs... start adjusting seating depth, pretty much the same way... groups of 3 at various OAL.

Find what seating depth provides the most consistent velocity with the smallest groups.

You will likely find that too much jump is not very accurate and has a wide velocity spread... As you move forward, the velocity spreads will come down as accuracy improves.

You may find that as you get closer to a hard jam, velocity spreads open up again as accuracy goes south. May is the key word here... Prove it to yourself. Hard jam might be fine, or may depend on how much neck tension you have. Personally for F Class, the less neck tension I have the better. Why? Variation in neck tension is relating to the amount of neck tension. Less neck tension will have the lowest variation in neck tension.

After that, sure go out to extended distances with your best loads... But don't blame your loads if you don't beat the hell out of the V Bull. The rest is in learning about wind and light refraction.... and never forget about light refraction. It's why guys hit the V Bull 3 shots in a row, and then a cloud comes by and everyone starts getting 5s for a few shots.

One more thing.... Try to avoid experimenting will too many different bullets and powders. I probably have 4,000 projectiles that I bought for testing 100 of this and 200 of that... they accumulate over the years because once I have a bullet I like, I stop shooting the others and they just never get used up. Powders can be the same way.
Click to expand...

Traditional OCW by Newberry suggests doing it at 100M.
Myself never got to trying it under 200M.
On an older load proven rifle, I will give this 100M experiment a shot at it.
As many of my previous posts indicate, since the arrival of Covid I have lost many prime LR spots to shoot at, and am regularly confined to my 200M spot.

Which is why, I have turned this into a neverending experiment documenting everything, from die type, to velocities, to keeping old targets to reference groups.
Right now it's my only version of fun.

As far as components go I think I have streamlined it pretty good.
Got over 5K of each primers (BR2 and CCI450 for my 6.5), 25lbs of H4530 and 20+lbs of Varget for 308, and thousands of 175SMK and 139 OTM.
Now for this FTR I just added 200SMKs to the mix and will stick to Varget and BR2 if it makes any sense.
As I went LP for my FTR rifle, even though small primered 308 is all the craze right now.
 
i load a bunch at starting loads and recommended OAL and go from there - if there are good enough I do not split hairs. It worked and is working for me save a lot of bullets and powder doing it this way - just make sure that when your "load" developing when your shooting you have a rock solid rest or else you will try to correct yourself on the reloading bench -
 
Lead hammer said:
Ya OCW at 100, OSD at 300.
I may have to get quickload, I think it would be helpful to have more data, as always.
Click to expand...

Yup Quickload is well worth it IMO. Its an excellent resource for playing the “what if” game. Its very handy if your trying to decide if components will be suitable before you test them.

I’m a novice at OBT tuning. The issue is there is 2 values that you are estimating. The shot start pressure and the burn rate. These numbers are critical for your barrel time. I’ve found that the barrel time lines up well with the accuracy nodes.
 
never had a issue huntin with loadin 3x rounds from 1 or 2 gr up from MIN to MAX and picking one thats closest together................. quite often end up with 3-6 rounds left an satisfactory deer huntin or in other instances, fox shootin, loads.

thus often uses up to 20 rounds per Box of 50, allowin 30rounds to hunt * also confirm Zeros at 200-300 if thats yer thing.

gives good idea of how that particular bullet works,then try another :D

Edit- ya might do a half gr load either side if ya really want an Go
 
WhelanLad said:
never had a issue huntin with loadin 3x rounds from 1 or 2 gr up from MIN to MAX and picking one thats closest together................. quite often end up with 3-6 rounds left an satisfactory deer huntin or in other instances, fox shootin, loads.

thus often uses up to 20 rounds per Box of 50, allowin 30rounds to hunt * also confirm Zeros at 200-300 if thats yer thing.

gives good idea of how that particular bullet works,then try another :D

Edit- ya might do a half gr load either side if ya really want an Go
Click to expand...


You will never find a node that way, repeatability will be tough.
 
When your hunting no need for a tightly tuned node.
3/4 moa is well within the limits to accurately put down game.
Heck my 6.5x47 is about 3/4-7/8 moa in it's worst nodes...
 
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