3D printed non-restricted

A

alexl650

Regular
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Somewhat a legality question.

I know building a non restricted is kosher. I guess I'm just wondering if someone printed an FGC 9 and made the barrel 18.5" long and it met the minimum 26" length criteria are you good to go? Maybe I'm over thinking this, but you know.

Thx
 
“Ghost guns” are subject to current Canadian criminal weapons laws. A “ghost gun” is a computer machined firearm. Firearm parts can also be computer created. Guns and parts are printed using a 3D printer. They are not serial numbered and thus not tracked with the RCMP.

In Canada, there are three classes of firearms: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Different regulations apply to different classifications. To own a restricted gun or pistol, an individual first needs to obtain a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL). As all firearms are subject to the Firearm Act and associated regulations, it is illegal to manufacture or possess 3D printed firearm without the appropriate licence and applicable registration certificate.

Anyone who violates these weapons related laws could face up to 10 years in prison. Currently, there is no legislation prohibiting Canadians, licenced or not, from possessing online downloads of 3D printable files. Charges have been laid in Toronto, Regina, Winnipeg and recently in Picture Butte, Alberta.
 
Regarding whether this is kosher or not, please read Section 99 of the criminal code very carefully: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-99.html

Now, think hard and ask yourself (or better, ask the CFO or a lawyer) whether 3D printing a firearm counts as 'manufacturing' and whether you know (or suspect) that you are not authorized for firearms manufacture.

The penalty for screwing up is 3 years mandatory minimum prison time (up to 10 years), so it is worth getting it right. Doesn't hurt to overthink it :)
 
nanite said:
Regarding whether this is kosher or not, please read Section 99 of the criminal code very carefully: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-99.html

Now, think hard and ask yourself (or better, ask the CFO or a lawyer) whether 3D printing a firearm counts as 'manufacturing' and whether you know (or suspect) that you are not authorized for firearms manufacture.

The penalty for screwing up is 3 years mandatory minimum prison time (up to 10 years), so it is worth getting it right. Doesn't hurt to overthink it :)
Click to expand...

If you have a firearms license you are OK as you are in accordance with the firearms act.

You would need to inform the RCMP of the creation of a new firearm and likely have to send it for verification.
 
nanite said:
Regarding whether this is kosher or not, please read Section 99 of the criminal code very carefully: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-99.html

Now, think hard and ask yourself (or better, ask the CFO or a lawyer) whether 3D printing a firearm counts as 'manufacturing' and whether you know (or suspect) that you are not authorized for firearms manufacture.

The penalty for screwing up is 3 years mandatory minimum prison time (up to 10 years), so it is worth getting it right. Doesn't hurt to overthink it :)
Click to expand...

Until recently, and probably, despite the current crop of Morons in Ottawa's opinions, if you make a restricted firearm, you simply contact the RCMP, and it would be registered as a matter of course.

I have always read Manufacturing, as being in the business of making objects for sale.

To date, I have not seen any Laws in place that make having a serial number mandatory on a Non-restricted. Lots are out there that were never serial numbered at the factory, and even more have serial numbers that were simply batch numbers so as to keep fitted groups of parts together in the factory.

My read on what is actually in place as Law, is that if you can own it, you can make it. Intent to make it for sale would be Manufacturing.

Come up with some actual Laws that make it illegal to make a firearm, or some Laws that actually reference Ghost Guns, rather than propaganda and hot air from various talking heads.
 
Daver_II said:
If you have a firearms license you are OK as you are in accordance with the firearms act.

You would need to inform the RCMP of the creation of a new firearm and likely have to send it for verification.
Click to expand...

I've heard the CFO has changed their interpretation of the law and now want you to have a manufacturers license regardless of whether you intend to keep it for personal use or sell it. I believe it was user Tiriaq that said as much? I could be wrong, it was one of the guys with a blue username at any rate.
 
bWONGER said:
“Ghost guns” are subject to current Canadian criminal weapons laws. A “ghost gun” is a computer machined firearm. Firearm parts can also be computer created. Guns and parts are printed using a 3D printer. They are not serial numbered and thus not tracked with the RCMP.

In Canada, there are three classes of firearms: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Different regulations apply to different classifications. To own a restricted gun or pistol, an individual first needs to obtain a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL). As all firearms are subject to the Firearm Act and associated regulations, it is illegal to manufacture or possess 3D printed firearm without the appropriate licence and applicable registration certificate.

Anyone who violates these weapons related laws could face up to 10 years in prison. Currently, there is no legislation prohibiting Canadians, licenced or not, from possessing online downloads of 3D printable files. Charges have been laid in Toronto, Regina, Winnipeg and recently in Picture Butte, Alberta.
Click to expand...

You understand that, well, pretty much EVERY gun these days, is machined by a computer operated milling machine or lathe, right?

You have at best, a pretty sketchy grasp of the terms and conditions, as defined in Law.

Which, sadly, is about on the same level as the understanding of firearms, by the people who think more Laws will solve any problems...
 
As far as I’m concerned, you can manufacture a firearm for personal use only. Not for sale. I haven’t heard of any changes restricting this.
A restricted firearm needs to be registered as soon as it’s completed. An FRT number will be assigned if one doesn’t already exist. Will need a serial number. May need to be verified. May need to be sent to the Lab for evaluation if an FRT doesn’t exist.
There’s no registry for non-restricted. However, I’d make sure whatever you build does not fall into restricted or prohibited category.
If you call your CFO and the RCMP, you’ll get two different answers.
I suggest you do so and ask for each answer in writing.
 
alexl650 said:
Somewhat a legality question.

I know building a non restricted is kosher. I guess I'm just wondering if someone printed an FGC 9 and made the barrel 18.5" long and it met the minimum 26" length criteria are you good to go? Maybe I'm over thinking this, but you know.

Thx
Click to expand...

Is the receiver of an FGC 9 restricted? If it is - adding a longer barrel does not change the restricted status... just the same as an XP100 - always restricted.
 
The FCG-9 has a shoulder stock and a barrel less than 16 inches long, which makes it a short-barreled rifle in the States and requires a $200 tax stamp from the BATFE. The stock is easily removed and not needed for the gun to function. Could be considered a pistol as well.
I doubt that it would be approved as NR in Canada. Probably added to the prohib list. Does one even exist in Canada?

FGC-9 is an acronym for F**k Gun Control Nine.
 
guntech said:
Is the receiver of an FGC 9 considered a handgun? If it is - adding a longer barrel does not change the restricted status... just the same as an XP100 - always restricted.
Click to expand...

It’s doesn’t really matter what the classification is, only why it fits that classification. A prohibited (or restricted) firearm could be made into a non-restricted firearm provided the reasons it is prohibited (or restricted) can be altered in such a way that it no longer fits the classification. A handgun is always a handgun (and therefore always either restricted or prohibited), but a rifle (or shotgun) can be any class based on its observed characteristics or by decree.
 
An FGC 9 by many designs has a shorter barrel, however there is nothing stopping someone making one with a barrel that meets the 18.5" requirement.

I would imagine thus far there isn't an FRT for it.
 
easy said:
As far as I’m concerned, you can manufacture a firearm for personal use only. Not for sale. I haven’t heard of any changes restricting this.
A restricted firearm needs to be registered as soon as it’s completed. An FRT number will be assigned if one doesn’t already exist. Will need a serial number. May need to be verified. May need to be sent to the Lab for evaluation if an FRT doesn’t exist.
There’s no registry for non-restricted. However, I’d make sure whatever you build does not fall into restricted or prohibited category.
If you call your CFO and the RCMP, you’ll get two different answers.
I suggest you do so and ask for each answer in writing.
Click to expand...

Probably worth getting answers in writing, if they'll give them.

Thx
 
alexl650 said:
Probably worth getting answers in writing, if they'll give them.

Thx
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure they will ask that you send it in for assessment, once 'it is a firearm', that vague and undefined term that they won't go out of their way to clarify.

It's the RCMP Tech branch, not the BATF from the States, who will 'happily' give you a letter with an opinion that they will stand behind.
 
trevj said:
I am pretty sure they will ask that you send it in for assessment, once 'it is a firearm', that vague and undefined term that they won't go out of their way to clarify.

It's the RCMP Tech branch, not the BATF from the States, who will 'happily' give you a letter with an opinion that they will stand behind.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the letter will say "we have it and you can't have it back".
 
trevj said:
It's the RCMP Tech branch, not the BATF from the States, who will 'happily' give you a letter with an opinion that they will stand behind.
Click to expand...

You don’t think the RCMP in their decision would explore how it’s categorized in its originating country? Somewhat?
 
trevj said:
Until recently, and probably, despite the current crop of Morons in Ottawa's opinions, if you make a restricted firearm, you simply contact the RCMP, and it would be registered as a matter of course.

I have always read Manufacturing, as being in the business of making objects for sale.

To date, I have not seen any Laws in place that make having a serial number mandatory on a Non-restricted. Lots are out there that were never serial numbered at the factory, and even more have serial numbers that were simply batch numbers so as to keep fitted groups of parts together in the factory.

My read on what is actually in place as Law, is that if you can own it, you can make it. Intent to make it for sale would be Manufacturing.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be the argument, that making for personal use is not 'manufacturing'. However note the section 99 law says "whether or not for consideration", i.e., it explicitly says that it is irrelevant whether it is intended for sale. What you need to argue is that 'manufacturing' means creating a product destined for sale or distribution, and so making a personal firearm isn't manufacturing.

On the other hand, if making ammunition for personal use is not 'manufacturing', and thus already exempt from section 99, then why was it necessary for the Explosives Act to give special exemptions for people who are manufacturing ammo for personal use (reloaders)?

By the way there is an interesting parallel grey area in US law regarding AP ammo, 18 USC 922: while you can make firearms provided you are not "in the business of" manufacturing (section a1), in contrast for armor piercing ammunition you cannot manufacture it period (section a7). So in US, can you make AP ammo for personal use? If you look at the ATF NFA handbook section 7.2, it suggests that 'manufacturing' requires intent to sell or distribute, but this is not firm.
 
A) There are plenty of FRT entries for homemade firearms, including non-restricted, restricted, and prohibited. I don't think all those folks went to prison... Here is what the FRT entry notes say on one of them:

Notes
Make

this is a generic screen for a firearm that has been specifically made by an individual such as the owner, machinist, or a local gunsmith.

this does not include firearms that have been manufactured by a known manufacturing firm or business licensed for making firearms.

Model

this is home-made single-shot rifle.

features will vary greatly.

Serial Number

may have a unique serial number applied by builder.


B) I have a Possession and Acquisition License. Not a Possession and Purchasing License. Manufacturing a gun for yourself is a method of acquisition. So maybe if you have a PAL you ARE authorized under Section 99? IANAL. I know that unlicensed people who have made firearms are charged under Section 99. For example, Danny Forsyth of Picture Butte (who unfortunately died before the case went to trial.)

Forsyth is charged with the following:

Offering to traffic firearms
Manufacturing a restricted firearm
Manufacturing a non-restricted firearm
Manufacturing a prohibited device
Possession of a prohibited device for the purpose of trafficking
Unauthorized possession of a non-restricted firearm
Unauthorized possession of a restricted firearm
Unauthorized possession of a prohibited weapon
Unauthorized possession of a prohibited device
Possession of a weapon contrary to prohibition order
 
trevj said:
Until recently, and probably, despite the current crop of Morons in Ottawa's opinions, if you make a restricted firearm, you simply contact the RCMP, and it would be registered as a matter of course.

I have always read Manufacturing, as being in the business of making objects for sale.

To date, I have not seen any Laws in place that make having a serial number mandatory on a Non-restricted. Lots are out there that were never serial numbered at the factory, and even more have serial numbers that were simply batch numbers so as to keep fitted groups of parts together in the factory.

My read on what is actually in place as Law, is that if you can own it, you can make it. Intent to make it for sale would be Manufacturing.

Come up with some actual Laws that make it illegal to make a firearm, or some Laws that actually reference Ghost Guns, rather than propaganda and hot air from various talking heads.
Click to expand...

Nicely said...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom