Are we able to sell?

SdF250 said:
I`m a newbie on here . It`s tough when CGN judges us all on how long we`ve been a member or by our ratings . Not all of us newbie CGN are trolls or rats.... Nothing i can say can change anyone`s mind . If we were to meet FTF that would be a different story then......
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There are a lot of newbies here who are legit and you probably are as well. However this place is riddled with new "members" who are here to troll, instigate and perhaps bait. There are enough of them that it makes starting out and being trusted difficult for the legit users. When it comes to buying/selling "grey area" items every bit of precaution should be taken and a good way to mitigate risk is to deal with established members. I would have no issue dealing with someone who has been around here for a while and has several positive trader ratings. You know those members are here for the guns, not to troll, instigate or bait.

Someone like yourself who's just getting started around here, well I would have no problem buying/selling from you. Everyone (including me) had to start at zero. But I'm sorry (well not really... ) to say that I wouldn't deal the type of items with you that this post is about.

Nothing personal about you but this is the internet. We don't know who each other are. We're on a site that's riddled with cops, antis and the likes and the only thing we have on this site to gauge a members legitimacy or intentions/purpose for being here is the feedback system.

That's just the way it is. No offense meant. And welcome to CGN.
 
At the risk of appearing to stand on a soapbox (or beating a dead horse topic), but I'm unsure of all this talk regarding "legal grey area" really.

It is a fact that the OIC is law (by means of decree).
It is also a fact the FRT is not a legal document (as disclosed by the RCMP themselves).

Perhaps my approach is too binary and/or simplistic ?

Like I mentioned in a previous post...

If the RCMP were to take it upon themselves to -out of the blue -change the Ruger 10/22 classification in their FRT from non-restricted to prohibited (or even restricted), then this would create a massive groundswell in our community!

If the RCMP were to have pulled the same stunt (as they did with ATRS line) with a very popular firearm such as a 10/22, then there would be many many more threads related to this very topic.

In the hypothetical case of the Ruger 10/22... I would think that people would still be trading 10/22s on the EE.
They would know that is business as usual until the firearms act is changed or a OIC is issue against the 10/22 ?
 
Munkey1973 said:
At the risk of appearing to stand on a soapbox (or beating a dead horse topic), but I'm unsure of all this talk regarding "legal grey area" really.

It is a fact that the OIC is law (by means of decree).
It is also a fact the FRT is not a legal document (as disclosed by the RCMP themselves).

Perhaps my approach is too binary and/or simplistic ?

Like I mentioned in a previous post...

If the RCMP were to take it upon themselves to -out of the blue -change the Ruger 10/22 classification in their FRT from non-restricted to prohibited (or even restricted), then this would create a massive groundswell in our community!

If the RCMP were to have pulled the same stunt (as they did with ATRS line) with a very popular firearm such as a 10/22, then there would be many many more threads related to this very topic.

In the hypothetical case of the Ruger 10/22... I would think that people would still be trading 10/22s on the EE.
They would know that is business as usual until the firearms act is changed or a OIC is issue against the 10/22 ?
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Exactly. If overnight, they updated the opinion in the frt that ALL guns were prohib, would we shut down the EE? Of course not. Clearly, their “opinions” are incorrect. (As CLEARLY as such BLATANT screwups as the typhoon F-12, Blaze 47, etc. Guns that cannot possibly be considered “variants”, and yet here we are.)
 
kodiakjack said:
Exactly. If overnight, they updated the opinion in the frt that ALL guns were prohib, would we shut down the EE? Of course not. Clearly, their “opinions” are incorrect. (As CLEARLY as such BLATANT screwups as the typhoon F-12, Blaze 47, etc. Guns that cannot possibly be considered “variants”, and yet here we are.)
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And it is for this very reason, that of all the legal battles currently in play in the Canadian Firearms Community, the ATRS battle is THE MOST IMPORTANT BAR NONE.

Currently the FRT is opinion (and not law), however, should the RCMP get away with this stunt, then the legal precedent has been set that FRT eventually become law.

In a democracy, the function of police is law enforcement -certainty not law interpretation or law creation -that is a function that ought to be performed by the courts and/or House of Commons.

The ATRS case is a legal battle that simply can not be lost !

Otherwise, if unchecked, the RCMP will effectively be attempting to amend the Firearms Act as they see fit and not our elected Members of Parliament in the future.

Good on ATRS for taking them to court BEFORE they try this with other manufactures (Canadian or otherwise).
They are working to get infront of this problem for the benefit of others in addition to themselves.
 
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So are we able to bring are ATRS to the range then if the FRT isn’t law or what, if so I’m f’n pissed for keeping mine at home!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Grey area, proceed with extreme caution as in know your buyer or seller.
We are fighting an expensive court battle to get rid of this grey area of legality created by the unlawful actions of the rcmp/sfss as our entire Modern line up of rifles were NOT mentioned in the OIC, which IS law. The rcmp/sfss decided on their own to prohib our rifles by unlawfully altering and redacting the FRT.
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Daily reminder that ATRS are kings
 
Are you still taking donations?



alberta tactical rifle said:
Grey area, proceed with extreme caution as in know your buyer or seller.
We are fighting an expensive court battle to get rid of this grey area of legality created by the unlawful actions of the rcmp/sfss as our entire Modern line up of rifles were NOT mentioned in the OIC, which IS law. The rcmp/sfss decided on their own to prohib our rifles by unlawfully altering and redacting the FRT.
Click to expand...
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Grey area, proceed with extreme caution as in know your buyer or seller.
We are fighting an expensive court battle to get rid of this grey area of legality created by the unlawful actions of the rcmp/sfss as our entire Modern line up of rifles were NOT mentioned in the OIC, which IS law. The rcmp/sfss decided on their own to prohib our rifles by unlawfully altering and redacting the FRT.
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Bman12456 said:
The FRT isnt law. Only cowards abide by false restrictions made by those without the legal authority to do so.
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Are you suggesting that ATR are cowards because they are no longer manufacturing and selling their rifle?

Of course the FRT is not law. It is only a catalogue. The classifications published in the FRT reflect determinations that have been made. You choose to believe that these determinations are made by those who do not have legal authority to do so. Maybe you are right; maybe not. The challenge ATR is mounting will go along way toward clarifying the situation.
 
Bman12456 said:
The FRT isnt law. Only cowards abide by false restrictions made by those without the legal authority to do so.
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There is a HUGE difference between being a coward and being suicidal as a business and known entity.
Yes we "could" have defied the CFO's demands at the risk of her opting to shut us down by force and jailing us with a great number of charges of trafficking in prohibited weapons and then letting a judge sort it all out in a year or 2 at great cost. By great cost I am talking weapons charges that don't go away ever even if the judge finds your way, several hundred thousands of dollars in legal costs, the total loss of my business and staff. An unknown amount of time in incarceration and most likely the loss of my house and assets. OR worse as we recently learned from Rogers "execution" in Ontario.

The cowards are those who choose to roll over without any resistance and give up or in the lack of help for those few of us who are actually putting up a fight for gun owners in general in whats left of Canada.
 
I’m so confused on this issue.. is it law is it not.. could one still be charged.. I see rifles that are FRT pop up on EE and I assume sell. Or deleted. Or sell and buyer gets arrested as it was a sting.. any intel here? Is this or has this happened? And since it’s so confusing would police try to entrap people on EE?
 
SwifTst said:
I’m so confused on this issue.. is it law is it not.. could one still be charged.. I see rifles that are FRT pop up on EE and I assume sell. Or deleted. Or sell and buyer gets arrested as it was a sting.. any intel here? Is this or has this happened? And since it’s so confusing would police try to entrap people on EE?
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I was going to bring my ATRS to the range this Saturday but didn’t, I walk into the clubhouse and seen a few members sitting down with coffees and decided to ask them if it’s ok to bring my rifle… honestly it was like speaking to anti gun guys cause as soon as I mentioned that the rifle was on the FRT list they immediately started saying no no no you can’t bring that… pure bull####
 
Just put of curiosity.....is there a record of anyone actually being charged with breaching this FRT, or is it mainly used as an intimidation tactic towards those whom go above and beyond in digging out info as far as making sure they are still legal?

Because I would be willing to go out on a limb saying, that your average gun owner out there has no idea what the FRT is.
I see FRT items on Gun Post on regular bases...
 
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