Am I about to make the worse decision ever? Do I do it? All for one?

[pa guns]

Hi

A shotgun that's not with you when you need it is not a lot of use. A .45 acp with factory loads simply is not a round I would count on for large bear.

If you can manage something larger than the .44 financially, do so. There are a *lot* of choices out there in the big revolver world.

Bob

 

[Huntsman]

Well, I voted Glock & shotgun. Boy do I feel stupid & undergunned
IMO, I'd still carry the shotgun when suitable. A .44mag seems to be the winner here so in that case I've always favoured the Ruger Super Redhawk
Alaskan for these situations.
http://images.google.com/images?sou..._CA210&q=Ruger+Super+Redhawk&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
I do realize that the bbl length is prohib but it would still be nice to carry.

 

[BabySeal]

Keep the shotgun for when you can carry it, and get a .44 or similar revolver to replace the Glock. Right now P&D have a Blackhawk in .45 Colt for $499.00, which when handloaded is certainly the equal of a .44 and might be a shade better with the right handload. If you haven't solved the problem with 6 rounds the speed of the reload won't matter.

x2

Its cheaper, more powerful, and I find SA revolvers fit me so damn good!

But I think that the .44 is definately a step up from the .45 acp. And doule action might be better for you too.

Even still though, given the country you are operating in, I think it would be wise of you to get into reloading if you are not already. Factory FMJ plinking ammo will not cut it for your needs.

 

[TDC]

23/4there,

My post was not intended to belittle you. I was confused as to what the hell you were talking about with regards to SLOPE. I misread your post with the belief that you were referring to ANGLE. I agree, a 110% SLOPE is a hell of a climb. I don't see how a slung long gun is a major issue? You do this professionally so you make the call. I'd stick with the long gun when and where possible. I'd also carry a sidearm. The ability to carry a long gun or not shouldn't affect whether or not you obtain your ATC. Personally, I wouldn't mention a word about the use of a long gun.

As for your decision. I wouldn't sell any of your guns. Keep them, and buy more. Seeing as how you dislike your shotgun, then there's no harm in selling it for something you do like.

RGV,

Where did I ever post anything remotely close to a running gun battle? My quote and comment are simply sound guidelines for survival with the use of a firearm(s). The skills used by those to engage other ARMED humans will work for animals who are neither armed nor trained. You still haven't clued into reality. A long gun will always beat a handgun.

The ability to do your job, is directly related to your ability to remain alive. A dead employee gets no work done. You can't work if you aren't breathing. If the quantity of work required by your employer jeopardizes your ability to work safely. You need to adjust the work load, change jobs or take your chances. My safety and my life is worth more than a pay cheque. YMMV.

Apparently my experience with mountainous terrain and killing bears is evident by two quotes. You have yet to explain how you came to such conclusions.

Based on your comment, I'd say your knowledge, skill set, and ability to deploy either a handgun or a shotgun is very apparent.

TDC

 

[23/4there]

Sorry TDC you sure took a beating in this thread.

I called CFO today, the office was closed today. It was special Wednesday, where I guess they don't work.

 

[albertacoyotecaller]

Carry gun

I carry a 629 in a 5" barrel. I was going to go the Glock 20 route until all this "unreliable semi auto" crap came about.

Go with the 44mag. I believe it will do the job. When the situation calls for the 44, you will probably be thick in bush and the shot will be close. It will be a last ditch effort to save your life. No need to waste extra time getting that shotty off your shoulder or out of a scabbord over your head. As well, carrying that extra weight will fatigue your body and mind. When your mental state is fatigue, that is when you will find yourself in trouble.

I have the 629, however I am having problems with the cylinder pin rotating back out. I have tried everything on my own to fix the problem but can't. I will have to send it in. A recent article I read that put the S&W against the Ruger Redhawk and Taurus gave the S&W a failing grade for that exact reason. You might want to look into the Ruger. They are strong and reliable.

Greg

 

[richardoldfield]

rgv

were you trying to make us all jealous with your 4" N frame. Don't we all wish we could have the prohibited like you.

I bet you aren't jealous after sending 12 hot loads down range! Regards, Richard

PS this is my M629-2:

 

[23/4there]

I carry a 629 in a 5" barrel. I was going to go the Glock 20 route until all this "unreliable semi auto" crap came about.

Go with the 44mag. I believe it will do the job. When the situation calls for the 44, you will probably be thick in bush and the shot will be close. It will be a last ditch effort to save your life. No need to waste extra time getting that shotty off your shoulder or out of a scabbord over your head. As well, carrying that extra weight will fatigue your body and mind. When your mental state is fatigue, that is when you will find yourself in trouble.

I have the 629, however I am having problems with the cylinder pin rotating back out. I have tried everything on my own to fix the problem but can't. I will have to send it in. A recent article I read that put the S&W against the Ruger Redhawk and Taurus gave the S&W a failing grade for that exact reason. You might want to look into the Ruger. They are strong and reliable.

Greg

Thats good to know, I have always had an affinity for S&W, but I will look at other models for sure. And yes the shot always needs to come out at the last moment and up close and personal.

 

[Ike]

23/4there,

I had a 629 Classic that I replaced with the 454 Casull (Ruger SRH) and had no problem with the cylinder pin. The 5" barrel length is much nicer than a 6" for balance adn size. It was a great gun to shoot (great smooth triggers ) but not the strongest action around IMO. If you want a gun only for the bush (workhorse and durable) and a LOT of magnum rounds then I would suggest going the Ruger route, maybe the Redhawk with 5.5" barrel. They aren't the most refined gun around but they are strong, my custom 5.5" SRH in 454 is strong as a tank (and heavy as one too).
For mainland coastal grizzlies where I WILL run into a lot of bears I would prefer the 44 mag or larger. I would be comfortable with a 10mm when in areas that I may run across the odd grizzly and definitely in areas dealing with black bears; but after a fair bit of first or direct second hand experience I would prefer the biggest calibre I could for the heavy grizzly country. (BUT that's just my personal opinion)
That said, keep the GLOCK and buy the 44mag (or if you handload then the 45 Colt)
Cheers

 

[Camp Cook]

A fellow CGNTZ that I visited with in Fort St John this fall told me his story of encountering a grizzly.

He was carrying a G20 10mm and shot at/hit the bear 7 times before it ran off.

When he came back with several CO's to investigate the scene there was absolutely no signs of the bear and after several hours of looking around still didn't find it so either he missed or the 10mm just doesn't cut on the big bears.

Myself I only carried my 10mm's when the big bears were sleeping for the winter...

I much prefer the Ruger SRH in 454 Casull when I am in big bear country.

You can load them with 45 Colt on up to the most powerful 454 Casull loads you can handle and as Ike said they are as strong as a tank...

Another thought is I keep seeng Ruger Super Redhawks in 44mag coming up for sale on the EE forum could buy one send it off to get shortened to 4.25"/5"...

 

[rgv]

RGV,

Where did I ever post anything remotely close to a running gun battle?

here ......

Your pistol is only a means to fight your way back to your long gun you never should have put down in the first place.

I am sure that Clint Smith had his reason and context to coin this. But for you to offer it as advice regarding a bear pistol, is absurd.

My quote and comment are simply sound guidelines for survival with the use of a firearm(s). The skills used by those to engage other ARMED humans will work for animals who are neither armed nor trained. You still haven't clued into reality.

Clued into reality? It's a bear for pete's sake. A furry pig. When they get inside your comfort zone because they are curious/hungry/frightened, you kill it.

A long gun will always beat a handgun.

No. The gun you have on your person will always beat the gun that is not on your person. That is the role of a short gun.

Apparently my experience with mountainous terrain and killing bears is evident by two quotes. You have yet to explain how you came to such conclusions.

fair enough ......

Anywhere you can press out with a pistol, you can swing a long gun.

Untrue. Plain and simple. If you insist upon it being true, you just have not spent enough time in truly thick bush and steep, wet slopes.

Slug or buck still outperforms any handgun calibre

Again, untrue. Buckshot will not outperform a big bore handgun when it comes to killing bears. It lacks penetration. If you insist upon it being true, I suggest you take some buckshot and some soft targets like multiple sheets of plywood or wet newspaper and test it for yourself against a big bore (41 mag and up) handgun.

Based on your comment, I'd say your knowledge, skill set, and ability to deploy either a handgun or a shotgun is very apparent.

TDC

I won;t bother trading barbs with you, but I've been working in the coast mtns since 1983, and have held an ATC since 1987. Haven't been et by a b'ar yet, so whatever my knowledge, skill set, and ability to deploy either a handgun or a shotgun is, it is apparently sufficient.

 

[Camp Cook]

TDC one of the things not mentioned is that most of us that have ATC's also have long guns specially designed for defense asa well as most of us would prefer to be able to use a long gun at all times due to the aiming abilities of a firearms that can be shouldered...

My long guns that are specially designed for wilderness defense are a 12 gauge Rem 870 with a 14" Dlask barrel and a 1X-4X Leupold scope on detatchable rings a Marlin 1895GS 45-70 and a 20" barreled LSI Puma M92 in 454 Casull.

Also one or more of these long guns is usually with me but it is either leaning against a tree or rock out of arms reach or I left it in the vehicle in either case I gurantee that I will not be able to reach it if they are not in my hands.

rgv I totally agree with all of your above statements...

 

[NAA]

Sell the Glock & buy the S&W .44

Keep the shottie......................

 

[23/4there]

I think I want to sell the shottie, because I hate the one I have. I am for sure going to buy a new shotgun. Selling both would increase my chances for getting a bigger handgun.

 

[23/4there]

Got my guns priced out today. $800 trades or $1000 if I sell myself

Carl @ Grandlunds told me to stick with the S&W. And then I held it........ yah this is a hard one

 

[TDC]

rgv,

For starters, the quote from Clint Smith, is a quote. It was meant to illustrate the point that a long gun is superior to a handgun. Nevertheless, any engagement that requires you to transition from your pistol/sidearm to your long gun would be considered "fighting your way to your long gun". The amount of movement required to complete such task is not what quantifies the statement.

Mr. Smith's quote is neither absurd nor out of place with respect to bear defence. Any engagement, encounter, or experience that requires the use of a firearm(and lethal force) to defend yourself will benefit from such words of wisdom. Man or beast, the faster one puts rounds and effective rounds on target the greater ones chances of winning the fight. Your adversary is irrelevent. A threat is a threat.

The use of a sidearm as a companion to your long arm is a very wise idea. I never stated you should opt for one or the other. Two guns is better than one. You are correct, the one that is always within arms reach will be the one that works. This is true of a long gun, provided you have th discipline to always carry it. Sometimes even with that discipline its not practical or feasable.

Any bush that is dense enough, wet/slippery or steep enough to cause problems with presenting your pistol or rifle is not somewhere that is going to offer you any real chance for survival. I find it hard to believe that such terrain is a common location for an encounter.

Buckshot is not an ideal load but 9-12 rounds of 9mm(balls) penetrating flesh simultaneously is not something to take lightly. Slugs being my personal choice offer twice the energy of a 44 mag round and create much larger holes. The largest hole with the most tissue damage(penetration) will be your most effective choice. 1600 fps(2.75 inch), .67 calibre and weighing in at 437 grains. Comared to 1250 fps, .44 calibre and 250 grains. I'll take the shotgun if I have the choice. Although I wouldn't feel bad with a 44 strapped to my hip.

Its good to hear that you've never been eaten(or nibbled). You seem to have found a setup that works for you. I'm not here to change your mind, it is your decision what you run. The decision to run a larger handgun shouldn't be done in hopes of shedding your long gun. Add more options for solving the problem, don't limit them.

TDC

 

[skit]

keep the glock, trade off the mossberg for a nice 1187 with a rifled barrel , get the 44 and carry all three. you have been doing this stuff for quite a while so you must be a really tough guy. even with the chainsaw and all that other stuff, shouldnt be a problem?? darnit, i would just love to be able to carry a piece when hunting.

 

[23/4there]

Can only carry one handgun, but wouldn't that be nice. And I have never carried a chainsaw in the woods in my entire life. (exceot for personnal use)

 

[rgv]

Mr. Smith's quote is neither absurd nor out of place with respect to bear defence.

Clint Smith's quote “The handgun is what you use to fight your way back to the shotgun or rifle you shouldn’t have left behind in the first place.”

If you beleive that (in respect to a bear deciding to maul you while you are in the woods working), I suppose we'll continue to disagree.

There would be no fighting your way to a rifle. You would deal with it with what is in your holster in the few seconds you have, and your mind-set should be centered on being competent and confident with the pistol that will always be on your person, not about wishing you had a rifle because a tacti-guru says so (with due respect to Clint Smith).

This is true of a long gun, provided you have th discipline to always carry it. Sometimes even with that discipline its not practical or feasable.

Any bush that is dense enough, wet/slippery or steep enough to cause problems with presenting your pistol or rifle is not somewhere that is going to offer you any real chance for survival. I find it hard to believe that such terrain is a common location for an encounter.

This is the part you haven't put together. By your own words, sometimes its not practical or feasible (to carry a long gun). It has nothing to do with the encounter actually occuring in particularly dense bush or steep slopes, it is about the handgun being what you would actually have on your person and accesible when the encounter unexpectedly occurs.

 

[John Marshall]

Well I am no expert on this topic but in my humble opinion, if you were walking down a trial and grizzly runs at you from behind and you are unaware, he is going to tackle you to the ground like a rag doll. Once this occurs the likelyness of getting the muzzle of your shot gun into a usable position seems slim to me. If you had a pistol I think there would still be a couple seconds that you could use it as it is still holstered to your side. At this point I would be interested in the biggest frikin calibre available.