dull brass

dearslayer

dearslayer

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Just a curious question I guess. I've noticed that after a day or so ( or sometimes hours ) after wet tumbling my brass they do not retain the nice shine they had when I first dumped them out and rinsed them. I just used warm water with Dawn dish soap and perhaps a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine tumbled for 3 hours using steel pins. I have some that I purchased about a year ago from a fellow member and they still have a nice shine to them as if they were new. Like I said it's not important enough to worry about but just something that I've been wondering about the last few times I've tumbled. Attached is a photo of some just cleaned brass from a few days ago that dumped looking as if new, but then dulled over night while left out to dry, as well as the ones I purchased a year ago looking new for comparison. Would it perhaps be the Lemishine causing them to dull?
 

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try a different cleaning formula ??
I try not to use o/f range brass,
I wet tumble for 3 hours or dry tumble w/ walnut shells for 3 hours depending on how dirty.
Wet , I use Dawn soap , I add a tsp of Mothers Carnuba wax and a tiny bit of lemon juice , hot water rinse then put them in a dehydrator for 15 minutes . they stay shiny for weeks
Dry I add a tsp of Mothers Carnuba wax in the walnuts same results blow of with compressed air .

then clean primer pockets when ready to load
 
I only use cold water with some citric acid and dawn. no limishine. Regarding acid use; a little less is better than a lot is my observation.
Had issues with pink spots using hot water so that is why I'm using cold for the tumble.

I usually run for about an hour, then pour out the (black) water and put new water in for the second part of the ride.

Did you rinse the brass once done? I rinse with hot water then throw in a bath towel and grab the ends and roll the brass back and forth. Then it's almost dry and i put it in a mesh tray to let the last bit dry.
 
bertn said:
I only use cold water with some citric acid and dawn. no limishine. Regarding acid use; a little less is better than a lot is my observation.
Had issues with pink spots using hot water so that is why I'm using cold for the tumble.

I usually run for about an hour, then pour out the (black) water and put new water in for the second part of the ride.

Did you rinse the brass once done? I rinse with hot water then throw in a bath towel and grab the ends and roll the brass back and forth. Then it's almost dry and i put it in a mesh tray to let the last bit dry.
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Yes I always rinse well with warm water then dump them all out on an old bath mat ( shake ,rattle and roll and pat dry with a tea towel ) to dry the same as yourself. I'll try changing out the dirty water half way through the next time as well.
 
road.ripper said:
try a different cleaning formula ??
I try not to use o/f range brass,
I wet tumble for 3 hours or dry tumble w/ walnut shells for 3 hours depending on how dirty.
Wet , I use Dawn soap , I add a tsp of Mothers Carnuba wax and a tiny bit of lemon juice , hot water rinse then put them in a dehydrator for 15 minutes . they stay shiny for weeks
Dry I add a tsp of Mothers Carnuba wax in the walnuts same results blow of with compressed air .

then clean primer pockets when ready to load
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Adding Carnuba wax to the brass to wet tumble is an interesting method.
 
Are you fully drying the brass before storage?? I’ve never run into issues of brass tarnishing again after I’ve wet tumbled with steel media, in fact quite opposite. I found my brass stays shiny over a longer period of time after I’ve stainless tumbled them. I use warm water with about 4 drops of dawn and a 1/4 tsp of lemishine (less is more). Tumble for 2-3 hours depending on how much brass you’re cleaning. Rinse thoroughly with cold/warm water, place on a drying towel to dry the outsides relatively well. During this time I will warm my oven to about 200, turn it off and place the brass in there to fully dry. Brass is usually nice and dry in about 25-30 mins.

Keep in mind the less you handle them the longer they’ll stay shiny and not tarnish. The oils from your hands will tarnish brass pretty quick. Anytime I’m reloading I either wear a rubber glove or use a microfibre to wipe the round off after I’ve loaded it.
 
25_Straight said:
Are you fully drying the brass before storage?? I’ve never run into issues of brass tarnishing again after I’ve wet tumbled with steel media, in fact quite opposite. I found my brass stays shiny over a longer period of time after I’ve stainless tumbled them. I use warm water with about 4 drops of dawn and a 1/4 tsp of lemishine (less is more). Tumble for 2-3 hours depending on how much brass you’re cleaning. Rinse thoroughly with cold/warm water, place on a drying towel to dry the outsides relatively well. During this time I will warm my oven to about 200, turn it off and place the brass in there to fully dry. Brass is usually nice and dry in about 25-30 mins.

Keep in mind the less you handle them the longer they’ll stay shiny and not tarnish. The oils from your hands will tarnish brass pretty quick. Anytime I’m reloading I either wear a rubber glove or use a microfibre to wipe the round off after I’ve loaded it.
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The brass usually will sit out in the basement spread out to ensure its throughly dry before storage and strangely enough I wear latex gloves for just about everything I do because I have very dry hands that crack and split all the time. I've tried drying in the oven in the past pretty much the same as you suggest but the last few batches I no longer do it because I found it dulled the brass even more than it does now by air drying.
 
Whatever is going is certainly some sort of corrosion reaction. Here are some thoughts on corrosion reactions:

All chemical reactions are driven by temperature. Whatever is happening can certainly be slowed by lowering the temperature at all steps of your process. Rule of thumb is lowering temp by 10°C cuts corrosion rates in half.

An obvious corrodent is citric acid in your Lemishine. Less obvious are things like chlorine in your tap water.

You should be able to determine if the dull look is developing in air or in the bath by taking a couple of samples out of the bath just as it finishes tumbling, rinse a couple of times with tap water, flush thoroughly with alcohol (rubbing alcohol or methyl hydrate), then drying with a fan or hair dryer on low. That should leave your cases perfectly clean and dry so you can see how they look. If they are shiny, keep them separate but close to the rest of the batch and see if they tarnish. If they do, something in the atmosphere of your home is the culprit.
 
I know you said that you rinse well, but I am wondering if you rinsed enough? That acid (Lemishine) needs to be dissolved out of the surface molecules of the brass, not just "rinsed". That may take repetitive rinsing with changes of water.

I go OCD on the brass rinsing before toweling and placing on racks to dry at room temperature.

I use a 2-tub system in my laundry sink to rinse: Outer tub which holds water is a standard Rubbermaid kitchen sink tub. Inner tub is the draining tub - the one I use is a "Madesmart Medium Basket" that just happens to nest perfectly inside the Rubbermaid tub with lots of clearance. link: https://www.madesmart.com/product-page/medium-basket-kitchen

I bought this at crappy tire, but I don't know if they still sell them. In any case, a drain tub/basket nesting inside the Rubbermaid tub will work very well.

The Madesmart basket has drain holes on the sides but not on the bottom. I drilled out several dozen drain holes on its bottom to increase drainage speed, and it works very well for multiple rinses. Fill nested tubs with water, slosh brass around, lift inner drain tub, drain, rinse, repeat several times.

I get long lasting shiny brass using this system.

(And I agree with de-priming brass before tumbling and cleaning.)
 
hatman1793 said:
Don’t forget to de-prime every case before wet tumbling. That way the primer pocket gets cleaned every time & you can explain to your wife why the whole process takes up so much of your time that you could be with her. Hilarious!
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I always deprime every time and my better half never complains because she knows how little time I get to do anything! I'm always working.
 
Biologist said:
I know you said that you rinse well, but I am wondering if you rinsed enough? That acid (Lemishine) needs to be dissolved out of the surface molecules of the brass, not just "rinsed". That may take repetitive rinsing with changes of water.

I go OCD on the brass rinsing before toweling and placing on racks to dry at room temperature.

I use a 2-tub system in my laundry sink to rinse: Outer tub which holds water is a standard Rubbermaid kitchen sink tub. Inner tub is the draining tub - the one I use is a "Madesmart Medium Basket" that just happens to nest perfectly inside the Rubbermaid tub with lots of clearance. link: https://www.madesmart.com/product-page/medium-basket-kitchen

I bought this at crappy tire, but I don't know if they still sell them. In any case, a drain tub/basket nesting inside the Rubbermaid tub will work very well.

The Madesmart basket has drain holes on the sides but not on the bottom. I drilled out several dozen drain holes on its bottom to increase drainage speed, and it works very well for multiple rinses. Fill nested tubs with water, slosh brass around, lift inner drain tub, drain, rinse, repeat several times.

I get long lasting shiny brass using this system.

(And I agree with de-priming brass before tumbling and cleaning.)
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I try to rinse really well with warm/cool water multiple times. Last year I picked up some sort of strainer thingie in the kitchen section at wallyworld for around $10. It really works well for my needs. All the steel pins drop from the top perforated bowl to the bottom bowl. Allows me to rinse well for my needs. I considered getting the Frankford Arsenal case spinner but this works fine until my needs change.
 

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Unless you apply some sort of sealant (wax, polish etc) and buff it, brass will tarnish. The cleaner it is, the faster it will tarnish.
Hot water, Lemishine, and Dawn removes any oil on the surface, and allows this to happen since there's no barrier between the brass and the air.
I use an ultrasonic cleaner with hot water, a squirt of Dawn, and maybe a tsp of Lemishine to clean my rifle brass.

It comes out clean, squeaky clean actually, after 30 minutes of ultrasonic.

Then it gets triple rinsed in hot water to get the Lemishine and Dawn off.

I wipe each case with a paper towel and shake any excess water out.

They're then stood vertically on a steel pan, into a 170 F oven for 30 minutes. When the time is up I turn the oven off, and let it cool naturally.

Then the necks get annealed (flame).

I use a Sharpie to label each round as it's loaded, so there's some of that left on the cases. When they've cooled after annealing, I use 000 steel wool to remove the marker residue and polish them lightly. I wear latex gloves to keep the steel wool from embedding in my hands, and the brass stays cleaner too.

After this, they normally stay quite shiny, although a few will turn more dull than the others over the next few days. If I wanted them to stay shiny I'd use a cloth with some mild metal polish to buff them with. I'm not that OCD. The rest of the process is just what I do.

It's more work than most are willing to do, and it's not practical if you're doing more than 50 cases at a time unless you have more time than I do.

My cases often last 20+ firings and look like new right to the end.

YMMV
 
Is it the chlorine and fluorides in your municipal water?

I triple rinse with well water from my cold tap, then blast each case with shop air.
Just sitting in a stainless bowl, they stay shiny for weeks. Ziplocked, indefinitely.

If you're on town water, you might want to get those 4L jugs of distilled water to do your rinsing...
 
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Bubba Yugga said:
Is it the chlorine and fluorides in your municipal water?

I triple rinse with well water from my cold tap, then blast each case with shop air.
Just sitting in a stainless bowl, they stay shiny for weeks. Ziplocked, indefinitely.

If you're on town water, you might want to get those 4L jugs of distilled water to do your rinsing...
Click to expand...

I'm in the country on well water. I do have a water softener as well but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I even tried distilled bottled water. I have a few batches to do over the weekend and may change things up. I'll report back on the outcome.
 
dearslayer said:
I'm in the country on well water. I do have a water softener as well but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I even tried distilled bottled water. I have a few batches to do over the weekend and may change things up. I'll report back on the outcome.
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And again, chlorine appears, this time in the guise of sodium chloride - salt, of your water softener.
I discovered that hot water is a big shine killer in the rinse game.
Keep the temps down after your Dawn and Lemishine, and it might stay a bit more stable.

Honestly, it's just cosmetics.
Once the carbon accretions are gone, it's 100% good to go, looks be damned...
 
Lemishine is Citric acid.

A proper rinse and then forced drying will keep your brass looking shiny. I tumble, double rinse and then dry in a dehumidifier. Brass stays shiny in buckets for years doing it that way. I use laundry detergent instead of Dawn, it's cheaper if you get the cheapest crap you can find and I think it works better, with less foaming during the rinse stage.
 
Well I did a few more patches today. Used a lot less Dawn and tried about a 1/4 teaspoon of citric acid instead of LemiShine. Rinsed really well and spread it out to dry. Will see how it looks by tomorrow afternoon.
 

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