Precision rifle course rifle pick?

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windy

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Hopefully I'm in the correct forum for this question. I have booked into a beginner precision rifle course for this spring that will teach the fundamentals of long range shooting. The course outline states that we will be shooting a couple hundred rounds up to 1000yds. Do I bring a Savage model 12 FV in 223 shooting a 75gn ELD-M @ 2550fps, for glass it has a Nikon black FX 1000 or a Christensen arms Mesa in 300 win mag shooting Hornady 200 gn ELD-X @ 2900 fps with a Leupold vx3HD 4.5x14 with duplex reticle, this scope will only give me about 13.5 moa of up which won't get me to 1000yds. Both rifles group great, the 300 mag is a bit more of a pig to feed and heats up quick. Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks
Windy
 
Take a look at the "Equipment needed while on course" section of this document. - https://www.rfma.ca/wp-content/uplo...structions-for-PR-Level-I-website-Version.pdf

When I was on course there were guys with .223 and .300WM but .223 will much harder at long ranges. (More popular rounds were .308 & 6.5CM) Most important would be to have an optic with tactical type turrets so I'd go with the .223 gun you have. You're going to need a scope that can dial out to long distances so a duplex reticle VX3HD would not be great for precision shooting at longer distances. Depending on how much travel you have within the scope a 20MOA (or higher) base should also be used. Maybe see if you can swap the FX 1000 to the 300 WM. I'd also recommend contacting the course instructor to see what they recommend based on what you have.
 
Something in 6.5 Creedmoor that is reliable in function. MOA or better accuracy will do all that you want/need for now. 223 is not reliable at those distances especially if there is going to be wind.

for optics, typically, this will be a FFP world so consider a FFP in MILs. For the money, the new Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 4-20X50 is a smoking good deal for optics, tracking, features and function. You can certainly spend more if desired and here the 34mm options in the Helos BTR G2, Ares ETR or Cronus BTR G2 family are wonderful.

rings, base to suit. You dont need to spend a fortune on each component... more important that the gear be reliable and you have more money to spend on practise and getting comfy with how the gear works.

A good brake will be important to help you see your impacts downrange.... that is really the key to learning. A high recoil rifle is not your friend at this stage of the game.

If I can help with other tips and gear, pm or email. Have fun

Jerry
 
Probably a good idea to have your second-best rifle and scope no further away than the trunk of your car, in case you need spares. Bring scope-mounting tools and a cleaning kit and anything else that might look remotely useful.
 
I’ve done the course. As per Jerry above I wouldn’t recommend a 223. As for the 300 WM - when was the last time you fired 200 rounds out of it? Many people don’t realize the punishment 200 rounds in a short period will put your body through.

308 and 6.5 are both popular for this course. The guys that brought their 338’s found out that 200 rounds is a lot to shoot out of these rifles. I used one of my 308’s.
 
Out of those 2 I would pick the .223.

Here's why:

- Misses tell you more than hits. A precision rifle course is not about getting more hits at 1,000 yards than the other participants. It's about learning, and coming out of it a better shooter.
- A .300WM is certainly going to be more punishing, especially over any volume of shooting. Especially in a light(ish) rifle. The concussion and recoil is going to fatigue you quicker, which will potential cause you to shoot a lot more "sloppy", which will be counterproductive from a learning aspect.
- A .223 is more economical for volume shooting.

Would something like a 6.5 Creedmoor be more appropriate? Probably. But you shouldn't go out and buy one just for the sake of a course. Bring your .223, go into it with an open mind, and "believe the bullet". Focus on learning and coming out of it a better shooter. Don't worry if at 1,000 yards the other shooters have a higher hit % than you. You will probably learn more.
 
If it's a case of using what you have, .223. I use to have a WM and even at 16lbs more than 50 rounds was a chore.

What I'd suggest is getting a bit more out of that 26" barrel. Get some CCI 41's and use 5.56 load data out of the newer Hornady manual. I'm getting 2825 fps with a 24" 1 in 9 Rem 783, and Hornady 75 gr Match/24.5gr CFE223. Yes I'm getting some pressure signs, hence the mil-spec primers, but I also have a slightly oversized firing pin hole in the bolt face. No sticky cases, but it is a little hard on primer pockets, not terrible, but it is a stiff load, I'm punching the odd CCI 400. Strange, S&B sm pistol were better, but only 41's have been 100%.

Obviously use caution...
 
Also, don't worry about buying gear before a course, unless its required for the course.

What you buy today probably won't be what you want after you learn/progress. A part of the learning curve for this sport is learning what equipment does and doesn't work, and you will learn some of this through your course, particularly seeing what other equipment others bring and how well they work (or don't). The instructor(s) may talk a bit as well about gear they've found that works well for the type of discipline of shooting you are doing. You will also probably have the opportunity to use other peoples gear during this course. Learn from others before spending your own hard earned cash.

I almost guarantee that what you would buy today is different than what you would buy with the knowledge and experience you gain from the course.
 
I believe you can use/rent their gear as well, if you'd like something more "optimized" for the course, like a 6.5 creed.

That being said, I'd run the .223 but like Redshooter said, I'd work up a load with some more jam. I dunno what you have access to with regards to components but my load with 75gr ELDM (and BTHP) is either 25.0gr of Varget or 22.7gr of D8208BR in Rem brass with CCI 400s. BTO is 1.955" and this gives me 2900-2950fps out of a 1:7.7tw 26" barrel. At that speed the 75ELDM will keep up with a 140gr ELDM going about 2750 out to 6-700 yards, it's no joke.
 
For those that have taken the course, what percentage of the shooting is done beyond 6-700 yards? That's what I would want to know if I was making this decision.
 
Shabazz said:
For those that have taken the course, what percentage of the shooting is done beyond 6-700 yards? That's what I would want to know if I was making this decision.
Click to expand...

I didn't take the rob ferlong class, i took one thats in sw bc. We spent some time (like two hours) on warm up shots that were under 600, then the rest was at or above 1000 and pushed the rounds out to a mile...all prone. Once we started doing sitting/kneeling/standing then it was around 600...and that was with/without crosswinds.
 
As much as the rifle, you really need to look at your glass. You didn’t mention what the Nikon is, but 4-14 isn’t going to get you there, especially if you decide to use a 223. My ballistics calculator shows a dfop of about 50 MOA at 1000 using 68gr Black Hills Match. And about 36 MOA using Hornady 73gr ELD match.

Optimum is going to be something in the 24-25 power magnification. Maybe even up to 32X.
 
Maybe work up a load with some heavier bullets. I am getting 3000 fps out of my 224 Valk with 80g eldms. Different cartridge but shouldn't matter with a bolt gun. Just under 25g of h4895. Picking up some speed will make a big difference. Is laser to 800.
 
The advice so far is all very wise.

Know your zeros. Have them written down.

Have enough ammunition.

Have spare everythings.

If you are going to shoot the 300 WM, have a recoil absorb shoulder pad because after 75 or 100 rds you won't like squeezing off another shot. Get good electronic ear muffs to manage the noise but still hear the range commands.

Is your .223 happy shooting heavy bullets at short ranges? The DCRA shooters had to use issue 55gr ammo a long time ago, then when the free ammo supply stopped that limitation was cancelled.
 
windy said:
Hopefully I'm in the correct forum for this question. ..... or a Christensen arms Mesa in 300 win mag shooting Hornady 200 gn ELD-X @ 2900 fps with a Leupold vx3HD 4.5x14 with duplex reticle, this scope will only give me about 13.5 moa of up which won't get me to 1000yds. ....
Windy
Click to expand...

That right there is reason enough to use the winter productively on resolving that issue. I would suggest an angled rail if you can't afford new glass.

Edit - at 1000 yds you need something like 246" of correction or about 22 minutes of come up.
 
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Have you reached out to whoever’s offering the course? They should be able to give good advice for their course.

If you don’t like or trust their advise, maybe you shouldn’t take that course.
 
Thanks for all the advice, I have not reached out to the course instructors yet (I will), I thought I would run this past CGN first. If the course instructors are good with 223 I will stick with that, I have all the components for cartridges at home ready to be built up, I was planning on building up a faster load as my calculator showed at 2550fps I would drop below the speed of sound before 1000yds and I understand that this will make things extra goofy. I will math it out with the Nikon and see if I need a -20 MOA rail or if I have enough turret adjustment plus reticle markings. If 223 will not suffice, I do have some other rifles I may be able to use but the rest of the fleet is in the hunting rifle realm.
During these courses, how fast and sustained is the rifle fire. For example my 300 mag will be rather warm after a five shot group and I typically let it cool to ambient before shooting another string. My 223 on the other hand with it's bull barrel and wee cartridge barely heats up at all. Is there time to allow the rifle to cool or would I be losing trigger time letting things cool?
Thanks
Windy
 
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