Dealers and magazines...

Brettzky

Brettzky

Regular
Rating - 100%
233   0   2
Location
Fraser Valley
When I start to research a gun, I go right to the company page to start out with to see what their marketing is, and what it ships with from the factory.

There are SO many guns that ship from the factory with 3 mags.
Then the Canadian retailers only include 2, "because that's what the distributor sent us".

If we're all paying (on almost all guns, at almost every retailer) OVER the MSRP that's stated on the manufacturer's page, because Canadian retailers like to do that, when American retailers are often selling 15-20% below MSRP...

Then shouldn't they at the very least be including everything that's advertised from the manufacturer?

Is this just a blanket excuse from retailers or the Canadian distributors that are just trying to squeeze more money out of the deal? Because if the distributor receives what comes from the manufacturer, I can only assume that they must - then why isn't that being passed on to the customer. If the distributor doesn't receive everything as advertised from the manufacturer, it seems like a major issue.
 
Brettzky said:
When I start to research a gun, I go right to the company page to start out with to see what their marketing is, and what it ships with from the factory.

There are SO many guns that ship from the factory with 3 mags.
Then the Canadian retailers only include 2, "because that's what the distributor sent us".

If we're all paying (on almost all guns, at almost every retailer) OVER the MSRP that's stated on the manufacturer's page, because Canadian retailers like to do that, when American retailers are often selling 15-20% below MSRP...

Then shouldn't they at the very least be including everything that's advertised from the manufacturer?

Is this just a blanket excuse from retailers or the Canadian distributors that are just trying to squeeze more money out of the deal? Because if the distributor receives what comes from the manufacturer, I can only assume that they must - then why isn't that being passed on to the customer. If the distributor doesn't receive everything as advertised from the manufacturer, it seems like a major issue.
Click to expand...


One step along the way someone in Canada steals the extra, and yes that’s what it is. If MSRP is paid and everything isn’t included and isn’t rectified that’s stealing.

Nothing more infuriating than buying a handgun it clearly having the space in the case where 3 magazines went and it magically has 1.. then conveniently replacements are $100 and don’t come in OEM packaging. HMMMM
 
Just because that's what comes with a gun in the US retail market, doesn't mean that it's what they sell on the international market. US guns come with 3 mags because people in the US carry the gun and 2 mags for the defence of their lives. As we know, people here aren't supposed to do that. Then add to that the fact that a single US dealer can move more guns in a month than a Canadian distributor moves in a year and you have the answer. We in Canada are a tiny market, there are pretty much no volume discounts even to our distributors, and people in the gun "industry" in Canada need to sell at full retail in order to deal with onerous tax regimes, regulatory regimes and the constant threat that their business will me made illegal over night, on a whim. This is not a place where they can play let's make a deal. Sorry, but that's the reality.

Note: I do not work for, or have interest in any dealer, or distributor - I pay full retail too, I don't necessarily like it, but that's life.
 
Brettzky said:
When I start to research a gun, I go right to the company page to start out with to see what their marketing is, and what it ships with from the factory.

There are SO many guns that ship from the factory with 3 mags.
Then the Canadian retailers only include 2, "because that's what the distributor sent us".

If we're all paying (on almost all guns, at almost every retailer) OVER the MSRP that's stated on the manufacturer's page, because Canadian retailers like to do that, when American retailers are often selling 15-20% below MSRP...

Then shouldn't they at the very least be including everything that's advertised from the manufacturer?

Is this just a blanket excuse from retailers or the Canadian distributors that are just trying to squeeze more money out of the deal? Because if the distributor receives what comes from the manufacturer, I can only assume that they must - then why isn't that being passed on to the customer. If the distributor doesn't receive everything as advertised from the manufacturer, it seems like a major issue.
Click to expand...

IRG will import handguns for you. At least they were before the "freeze".
 
Researching a US gun sold in the US does not mean that is what will be shipped to Canada.
CZ Shadows comes to mind.
One time Jericho 941 would come with 3 mags, but that was not a standard thing all the time.
 
I had that issue with a Glock I bought from a dealer. The web site said it comes with 3 mags and it was also written on the sticker listing the contents and ser # on the Glock pistol case that it came with 3 mags.

I contacted the dealer let them know I wanted the third mag that I paid for according to their web page. Got it a week later in the mail. Not going to name them since they fixed it without complaining or trying to weasel out of it.
 
recce said:
I had that issue with a Glock I bought from a dealer. The web site said it comes with 3 mags and it was also written on the sticker listing the contents and ser # on the Glock pistol case that it came with 3 mags.

I contacted the dealer let them know I wanted the third mag that I paid for according to their web page. Got it a week later in the mail. Not going to name them since they fixed it without complaining or trying to weasel out of it.
Click to expand...

yeah I’ve noticed certain dealers selling Walther PDP’s had guns with no extra mags available last week. Now the guns are all sold out and they happen to have 30 mags for sale. Interesting…..
 
I'd have 3 new guns but they all only come with 1 mag, so I'm not buying any if them
Seems all the surplus come with 1 only
Cz75, Beretta 92, Jericho 941 and no where to buy mags.
 
In surplus you have to take into consideration how Government Agencies sell item's
Pistols go as one lot
Accessories and extra magazine go as another lot
Parts go as another
Dealer's will bid on the various lots and only get some of them
So the pistol will have the magazine that was in the gun Or no magazine at all
 
Heh, you think it's bad now? Wait until after October, when our tiny market for handgun accessories gets even tinier. Prices will go up, if you can even find what you want without ordering it in from the U.S and waiting 6 weeks. IF you'll be able to import it...
 
As someone who's worked in numerous parts of the firearms industry for 10 years now (for both sponsor and non-sponsor retailers), I'll try to explain a bit since this question comes up a lot-


Point 1:
When a US company makes a specific model, they'll assign it a part number or SKU. Generally, any change to the configuration results in a change to the SKU. This means changing a bunch of minute procedures and bits of their production process.

I'll use S&W as an example- most of S&W's semi auto handguns come with magazines over ten rounds, so when a specific configuration for a new market needs to be made with a 10 round mag instead of 14, as far as they're concerned it's a "new model" with a new SKU. If you cross-reference S&W's part numbers on their site, you'll see there are different numbers for 10 round guns and 10+ round guns of otherwise identical models.

This means extra work for S&W, especially when Canada is a very small market (fewer people than the state of California), so they're changing their production/shipping procedures to account for seemingly minute changes for a very small order of guns. That means the additional cost for any changes is applied over a small number of guns, making the end result more expensive.

Point 2:
"Why don't they just pin the mags here then??"

Because believe it or not, not just anyone can legally pin a magazine in Canada, it is a specific privilege issued on a business license (which most businesses don't have) and most manufacturers aren't willing to do it themselves (slows down production etc. as explained above). So if a Canadian company wants to pin the mags themselves, they must first import full capacity mags (which are prohibited devices, requiring extra licensing and rigamaroll, and thus extra COST), then unpack/pin/repack a few hundred of thousand mags, again adding cost and slowing down the process.

Point 3:
To combat the two issues above- many manufacturers just ship firearms to Canada without magazines.

That means that the company that imports the gun is now responsible for sourcing mags domestically (at generally higher cost), and repackaging guns with their own mags. In the case of fairy universal magazines such as AR or Glock-pattern mags, most Canadian importers will order a large quantity of one brand of Canada-compliant magazine and ship one along with each gun. Of course there's nothing stopping them from adding more of those mags, save for increasing cost, and burning through a generally limited supply of mags faster than necessary.

The three points above combined mean that on a manufacturing/distribution end, more often than not, it isn't worth the additional cost to the retailers/distributors to try to sell firearms with the exact same magazine offerings as their US counterparts. Some manufacturers are better than others (kudos specifically to Glock on that one), but by and large it just doesn't work for Canada.

Nobody is stealing your magazines.

And a further point to the price gripers- remember that licensing/import fees, exchange rates, freight, duties, etc. are all added into the cost of getting a firearm into Canada before it ever hits a dealer's shelf. Further to that, the small size of our market, coupled with the ridiculous amount of restrictions and additional cost added in running a firearms-sales business in Canada means that Canadian dealers aren't able to survive on the type of margins US companies do.

Yes, guns cost more in Canada than they do in the USA, and there are a ton of different reasons for that. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck, but unfortunately it's not going to change anytime soon. If you're incapable of comprehending why guns cost more, that's a you-problem.
 
That's informative, thanks for that. However, there are laws governing advertising in Canada. If your website says 3 mags then you need to provide 3 mags.

Falling back on the lazy excuse of "well, we just did a copy and past of the standard or U.S. ad or we forgot to correct it doesn't cut it.

If the vendor does not include the normal amount of magazines from the supplier because they were not provided, it is up to the vendor to include that information in their ad. Otherwise people can expect to receive the amount listed on the website and the manufacturer's label.

And like you mentioned with Glock actually providing the items promised, it is a case of some sellers keeping the third mag for resale.
 
lol none of the boxes are sealed. i bought a pistol. then they said there was no trigger lock when it specified there was. then made me buy one for 30 bucks. im 100 percent sure they keep and surplus the extras. Unless its a gucci gun that specifies the extras
 
recce said:
That's informative, thanks for that. However, there are laws governing advertising in Canada. If your website says 3 mags then you need to provide 3 mags.

Falling back on the lazy excuse of "well, we just did a copy and past of the standard or U.S. ad or we forgot to correct it doesn't cut it.

If the vendor does not include the normal amount of magazines from the supplier because they were not provided, it is up to the vendor to include that information in their ad. Otherwise people can expect to receive the amount listed on the website and the manufacturer's label.

And like you mentioned with Glock actually providing the items promised, it is a case of some sellers keeping the third mag for resale.
Click to expand...

Yep, that is 100% fair, though it's an easy mistake to make. Regardless though, there's definitely more effort to be put in on some folks' behalf then. I've been caught on both sides of that before and it sucks either way. And whoever is nabbing spare Glock mags should be shamed.

For what it's worth, a lot of the reason you see copy/pasted US descriptions isn't just because of laziness or "efficiency", but because search engines like Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, etc. actually direct more traffic to websites that use verbatim-copied data from the manufacturer's site, because they make the assumption the data is more accurate that way. They essentially "reward" websites for accuracy by directing more traffic to them via their priority in web searches.

Randyb0bandy said:
lol none of the boxes are sealed. i bought a pistol. then they said there was no trigger lock when it specified there was. then made me buy one for 30 bucks. im 100 percent sure they keep and surplus the extras. Unless its a gucci gun that specifies the extras
Click to expand...

Yikes. Again, if the dealer has specified that there's stuff provided with the gun, I fully agree they're obligated to provide it, that just sensible business practice. I know there's dealers who are better and some who aren't...

Once again though, I've seen a lot of folks freak out about opened/un-sealed boxes over the years- remember that gun has passed through a lot of hands before ever hitting a dealer's shelf, and it's probably been checked over several times before getting there. Particularly with handguns, I make a point of making sure I open every single box to verify the serial number on the gun matches the serial number on the box before initiating the transfer- it's saved my @ss a few times too. Shipping out the wrong S/N to a customer could land you or the buyer in a heap of trouble.
 
Just noticed the shrinkflation with the CZ tactical sport 2’s. 3-21round or 3-10round magazines SKU’s but somehow two magazines disappear out of the box when north Sylva imports them in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom