The Load

kjohn

kjohn

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Loaded up a few .303 British with 13 gr. Red Dot and my Lee 312 bullets (WW + a bit of linotype, gas checked).

C.E. Harris wrote a good article on using "The Load". A bit longish to post in this thread, but it can be found here:

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/the-load-by-c-e-harris.631141/
 
It works in a lot cartridges but I had a couple that RedDot pushed the bullet too fast and was skipping the rifling. I recovered a few bullets with messed up rifling marks. 303 British it worked excellent. 6.5 Swedish or 6.5 carcano results weren’t to good. I have the article in one of Handloaders Digests which peeked my interest in Col. Harris. He has some interesting cast bullet articles with military surplus rifles. Reddot the wasn’t the best at 100 m or longer. At 50 m I can get nice little groups. Makes an excellent short range plinker load. Makes a good load for introducing new people to high power rifles.
The other powder he strongly recommended was 16 to 20 grs of 2400 in any full size military cartridge with normal bullet weights for that cartridge. I find 18 grs works well in 303 or 7.62x54R. 2400 is the powder i use for most of my cast loads.
Anyone interested in shooting cast loads should look up Col. Harris’s articles. A lot of knowledge he passes along.
 
I'll second the 2400 loads listed above. I personally get better accuracy out of my 30 cal calibers with 2400. The Lee 185gr .312 sized down to .310 in my 308's shoots beautiful single hole groups at 50 yds.

The Load of Red Dot works o.k. but I get better results from somewhat slower burning powders. Not only 2400 but the even slower D4895 with reduced loads as allowed by Hogdon for H4895.

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf
 
I've fired hundreds of light loads using 700X, various calibers, different bullet weights and appropriate powder charges.

Interesting feature of H4895 powder being used in reduced loads.
 
It's really just "A Load" that happens to work pretty well in a certain set of cartridges with certain bullet weights both jacketed and cast. The faster the powder, the larger the range of loads you can develop, so you could do the same sort of thing with a couple of dozen other powders in roughly the same Burn Rate range.

Don't get me wrong, it's a useful contribution, as what he developed is useful for those who just want something that requires little thought (a "General Purpose" keep it simple load), but it's a shame really because they lose out on the possibility of a much more accurate load with say 11.0 or 15.0 grs of Red Dot, not to mention other powders.
 
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Andy said:
It's really just "A Load" that happens to work pretty well in a certain set of cartridges with certain bullet weights both jacketed and cast. The faster the powder, the larger the range of loads you can develop, so you could do the same sort of thing with a couple of dozen other powders in roughly the same Burn Rate range.

Don't get me wrong, it's a useful contribution, as what he developed is useful for those who just want something that requires little thought (a "General Purpose" keep it simple load), but it's a shame really because they lose out on the possibility of a much more accurate load with say 11.0 or 15.0 grs of Red Dot, not to mention other powders.
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Yep. I think some of us have figured that out. Years ago, I was given a bunch of Gevelot 16 gauge shells. I took them apart, used the lead in 12ga, and used the powder in some pistol loads, the details of which are lost in the mists of time. Sometimes some of us maybe forget we aren't always talking to the experienced reloader. I know young man in my area that wrecked a Garand with reloads, as he put it, "before I knew what I was doing." I'm going to ask him if I can see the rifle and maybe get some pics.
 
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kjohn said:
Yep. I think some of us have figured that out. Years ago, I was given a bunch of Gevelot 16 gage shells. I took them apart, used the lead in 12ga, and used the powder in some pistol loads, the details of which are lost in the mists of time. Sometimes some of us maybe forget we aren't always talking to the experienced reloader. I know young man in my area that wrecked a Garand with reloads, as he put it, "before I knew what I was doing." I'm going to ask him if I can see the rifle and maybe get some pics.
Click to expand...

Having a "load" is a good rule of thumb for people who have only been reloading for a few years like myself. But as you folks have eluded to there is some room for interpretation. I'm feeling brave loading LeverEvolution into a 223 and 308, putting fast shotgun powder into a rifle case without a benchmark load is terrifying.

If red dot is ever available again I will definitely buy a lb of it.

Did he blow the garand up or wreck the gas system with powder that is too slow?
 
Snider shooter said:
It works in a lot cartridges but I had a couple that RedDot pushed the bullet too fast and was skipping the rifling. I recovered a few bullets with messed up rifling marks. 303 British it worked excellent. 6.5 Swedish or 6.5 carcano results weren’t to good. I have the article in one of Handloaders Digests which peeked my interest in Col. Harris. He has some interesting cast bullet articles with military surplus rifles. Reddot the wasn’t the best at 100 m or longer. At 50 m I can get nice little groups. Makes an excellent short range plinker load. Makes a good load for introducing new people to high power rifles.
The other powder he strongly recommended was 16 to 20 grs of 2400 in any full size military cartridge with normal bullet weights for that cartridge. I find 18 grs works well in 303 or 7.62x54R. 2400 is the powder i use for most of my cast loads.
Anyone interested in shooting cast loads should look up Col. Harris’s articles. A lot of knowledge he passes along.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that Ed is not a Colonel, just as a point of clarification...
 
14.5gr of Unique behind a lino Lyman 311332/311334 with NRA 50/50 lube and a gas check has been an excellent plinking load for me with 7.62x54r out to 400ish yds. It also works nicely in .303. Cheap to shoot, low recoil and lots of fun.
 
Pretty much any shotgun powder works the same. I have used Blue Dot, Longshot, 540, Promo (Red Dot analogue) and many others.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by mudgunner49 View Post
Sure didn't come up for me on the Googler - I've had multiple conversations with him and it never came up. I shall pose the question next time we chat...
So you can speak to him from the grave. He died in 1996.
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I think you fellows are thinking of a couple different people. The Load article by Ed Harris . His bio here : ht tps://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/edharrisbio.htm

the Col CE Harris was with the NRA for years and put out" Cast Bullets" by Col. E. H Harrison NRA (1979) His bio here written by ED Harris : ht tps://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/10426-curious-regarding-col-e-h-harrison/
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Anyone ever try Blue Dot in 303? I have a can of Blue Dot I don't really know what to do with?
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This brought a chuckle to me as I bought a pound of it about 20 years ago because practically no-one was using it outside of for shotgun shells. "They" all said that there are no rifle loads because it's not safe for use in rifles - that was enough for me to try it. I played a very little with it and still have at least 90% of it.

I tried it in the 351 WSL and a couple of other cartridges, all with cast bullets. In the 303 Brit (and 308 Win), 15.0 grs under a 200 gr bullet averaged about 1400 fps.
 
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