Acceptable Precision
- Thread starter Longbow
- Start date
ruger-ruger
CGN Regular
I have never been to a range where anyone relies on a shot marker to record your score. A scorer should always be watching the shooter and the bullet trace.
Most ranges I shoot at in the US require the scorer to still use a spotting scope to watch for the trace and hits. Eliminate the I hit the target and it didn’t register scenarios.
Also all the information on the screen need to be off when shooting a match. When the shooter dumps one low out the bottom they should never be able to look at the screen and see how many FPS the bullet was going. And make corrections from that.
A person pulling a target would never know the bullet was slow they are only to mark hits. Same as the shot marker.
Also in Calgary they need to have the 7 second delay on and only show the one shot on the target at a time.
It is very confusing and if you want to plot your shots then use a plot sheet.
The idea of a shot marker in competition is to simulate a target puller. And that’s what it should be with no extras.
It helps no one.
I like shooting in Calgary. Beautiful range.
But the targets should be the way they are meant to be.
It would help prepare people to shoot at other places.
I'm going to say that the answer depends on how windy it is on the day of the match.
In calm conditions, you need to hold the 1/2 MOA V bull if at all possible. In these conditions, the shooter with a tack driver even a moderate BC tack driver is likely to win.
If it gets windy, accuracy is far less critical and shooter knowledge and skill will make much more of a difference.
F Class can be a little like golf in this sense where the perfect rifle that day depends on the weather forecast.
If you want to analyze cartridge options, and vertical dispersion to hold 1/2 MOA on a calm day, you need to appreciate the target is round... Meaning you can leak out the corners if your vertical dispersion is a full 1/2 MOA... With that in mind, you really need to hold a vertical dispersion of 1/4 MOA to allow yourself the full width of the 1/2 MOA scoring circle.
Certainly distance affects all this and you can do well at short to mid range with a relatively wide velocity spread, but that gets increasingly more significant as the range is extended.
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
QUOTE]So what do you consider acceptable precision for the various long range discipline of F Class FTR, and DCRA Precision Rifle[/QUOTE]
DCRA Precision rifle - when you get out to 600 to 800 meters: 1/3 to 1/2 moa, really good wind calls from your spotter. For in closer: 1/3 moa, ability to react quickly, really good wind calls from your spotter.
DCRA Precision rifle - when you get out to 600 to 800 meters: 1/3 to 1/2 moa, really good wind calls from your spotter. For in closer: 1/3 moa, ability to react quickly, really good wind calls from your spotter.
DCRA Precision rifle - when you get out to 600 to 800 meters: 1/3 to 1/2 moa, really good wind calls from your spotter. For in closer: 1/3 moa, ability to react quickly, really good wind calls from your spotter.[/QUOTE]
Except for perhaps Match 60 I do not believe you need a 1/3 MOA rifle and doubt that many really have them. My rifle is a honest .6-.7MOA rifle for 20 shots and has not held me back from the podium. Unicorn Spotters are certainly useful though.
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Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
When you're on the clock at 200 meters the 1/3 moa rifle will probably degrade to something like 1moa as you have to manage time limitations and rifle movement. As it is, my spotter is excellent at calling wind and communicating shot placement. Congrats to you for putting the shots in the target for the win.
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
Fingers crossed.
ruger-ruger
CGN Regular
Well so far they are going to hold the nationals this year.
Will be in Nokomis SK. They are talking end of August.
I started Service Conditions Precision matches last year with ORA, up against some pretty formidable shooters from F-Class. I brought my 6.5 PRS gun, which is a consistent 1/3moa or better at 100. First match I got third place at Milcun, and it was not my best shooting. But what I came away with was a lot of knowledge from the seasoned shooters, particularly on gear management and prone set up, and an introduction to some amazing members of the shooting community.
You can confidently go to a match with a 1-1.5 moa setup, and though you're not going to win the medal, you'll be 10X better by the end of the match, and probably make a bunch of great shooting buddies for life.
1/3moa doesn't mean S**t if you've never dealt with a switching, gusting wind at 1000yards, so just go have some fun, get your ass spanked, have your gear break down, your DOPE go sideways, and learn from these guys. Take the lessons, go back to the range and dial your system in.
And seriously, HYDRATE. So many flubbed shots area result of low blood sugar and dehydration, after laying prone in the sun for five hours. Seriously.
Consistently.
Edit:
I mean, if you've got a rifle that shoots 1/3 moa at 100(that's .33 inch centre to centre), but haven't shot past 100 meters at your local range, the rifle won't save you. So go to a match with what you've got (1/2moa, 1moa, 1.5moa, 2moa etc), and get some windy days past 500 under your belt. That's the best thing you can do; it certainly changed the way I shoot. Enjoy the journey!
10 shots per set, plus a couple sighters. 200,300,400,500,600,700,800 & 900 yards. So around 100 per full match, give or take. Over the day, your rifle will heat up, get fouled & dirty, possibly wet from rain, etc etc. So it's important to have consistency, as opposed to just accuracy.
The targets have V-Bull, 5 point and 4 point zones. The smallest, on the hostage target, are two spoon sized V-bulls that are barely 1moa wide. At 200m, that is a 1/2" target, and you'd have to put 10 in for a perfect score. (I usually kill the hostage with 3-4 shots, and get a few 4's, lol.)
But for what it's worth, sometimes luck is on your side. In my first match, I killed the hostage at 200m, dialed the wrong elevation at 300, used the wrong wind at 600, but absolutely slayed the mover at 400m.
If you can shoot 1moa all day out to 900, you could easily win a match by getting 10X 4's.
First of all I am glad you are enjoying the new to you discipline of Canadian Style PR, it has a long and honourable history. Full disclosure I am chair for the PR Section in NS and have shot these type of matches for 20 years or so.
What I was asking is how you decided that it was a .33 MOA gun at 100m. How many rounds in your group, 3,5,10,20 etc. What is it at distance?
For instance my PR rifle in .308, so a little more recoil, it is a 10 round .5 MOA gun at 100m 90% of the time. Out to 800m I know I can hold .75MOA most of the time and 1 MOA pretty much all of the time. Understanding is important to me as it drives my approach to different courses of fire depending on wind conditions.
So to me your last point is very important , yes if you can hold 1 MOA out to 900M, including wind in Canadian Style PR, and can shoot movers and snaps well you will win matches.
In this case Accuracy trumps pure Precision.
Ah. This is a great discussion.
The rifle I've been using will shoot rounds under .37 inches, repeatedly, at 100m, or 109.4yards, thus, it is designated .34MOA. Whether 3, 7, 10, 20 shots are taken, at 100m, they will all fill the same hole, under .375" at 100m.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2369575-Yowza!!-6-5-Federal-Gold-Premium-Reloads-Solid-Results-Full-process-and-review
The rifle would probably group under 0.2 moa, if my benchrest technique was better.
In reality, at match stages of 500 yards, shots are still grouping at .34moa or better. (1.68" group, 10 shots).
Regardless of the distance, the groups don't open up because of the rifles inherent ballistics; they grow because of incorrect ballistic solutions that I've provided, and limitations on my fundamental marksmanship & wind calls. The further the distance, the input errors grow exponentially, but the rifles ballistics do not change; even transonic destabilization is incoprporated into the drag model and hit percentage profile.
My dope and MV solver uses barrel temp, fouling, ammo temp, and environmental conditions to deal with changes, and applies a correction to the MV. These are all datum gathered in testing by calibrating the rounds to distance ,with these parameters and their variances logged. This is known as "CAL-MV" parameters in Kestrel's AB solver, and are all simple coefficients, though meaningful.
So, in a perfect no-wind 77 degree day, the rifle will hit .34 moa(3.4") targets at up to 1000m, outshooting my ability without a doubt.
Thus, a "1/3moa" rifle. I just haven't matched my abilities to it yet. But I'm working on it.....
