I just bought a 308 garand and am ignorant

Jahnj0584

Jahnj0584

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Hey cool dudes, since Oct I've been after an m1 for a good price. Well, I finally found one and had to drive 2hrs each way to get it yesterday. It's a 1967 Breda 7.62 garand in almost perfect condition. It has seen 40rds since it was refinished!

I got 100rds and 8 clips (3x 5rd for deer season!) and am hoping to get the range some point this week when it's sunny.

Now, excuse my ignorance but a few google searches haven't really helped me out here.

1) is the rear sight elevation only meant for 30-06? How close will it be for 308, and can I get another trunnion or re-hash it?

2) He said to not shoot "heavy" rounds over 150gr from it because of 308 pressure yadda yadda. This sounds like fuddlore to me, but want confirmation beforehand. I shoot 180gr 308 from my deer rifle.

3) Whats the best accuracy can I expect here, 3moa? Ignoring individual ammo preference and all that. I know the clicks are 1moa so it obviously wont be an uber precise shooter.


Anyway, here it is. Hope you like it. If you're an M1 pro, please DM me on what you think it is worth.
 
Not sure that I can help about 308 Win / 7.62 NATO, but I do notice several reloading manuals here give different loadings for those Garands (in 30-06). Was explained to me that is pretty critical what is the pressure within that bore, as the bullet passes the gas opening - to get that rifle to cycle correctly. I do not own one, so I do not know if that gas port is adjustable or not - but apparently is/was a carefully balanced thing for reliable operation against the standard loading that was used. Is a variable that is not even considered for reloading for bolt actions.

In other words, an appropriate powder and bullet weight - suitable for a bolt action rifle - might result in that Garand not working so well.
 
Not a Garand guy, but given that the action is very similar to the M1A/M-305's that we used to own, I would concur with the "don't shoot heavy bullets" out of it. Pretty well known that shooting heavy (over 168gr) bullets is not recommended in the M-14 platform rifles as it can beat up your op-rod and cause failures. Generally, anybody that wanted to use heavier bullets in their M-305's usually went with an adjustable gas block to keep pressure down, and keep from damaging their rifles.
 
KePet said:
Not a Garand guy, but given that the action is very similar to the M1A/M-305's that we used to own, I would concur with the "don't shoot heavy bullets" out of it. Pretty well known that shooting heavy (over 168gr) bullets is not recommended in the M-14 platform rifles as it can beat up your op-rod and cause failures. Generally, anybody that wanted to use heavier bullets in their M-305's usually went with an adjustable gas block to keep pressure down, and keep from damaging their rifles.
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This. Don't bend the operating rod with heavy projectiles. Stick to 147gr. Otherwise, awesome job on securing a nice piece!
As far as the rear irons go, send a text to Hungry or 45acpking on here. They are very knowledgeable about the M14, and the irons are very close. They might know.
 
I have acouple in 30-06 which I reload for. I stick with 150 grs and powders with the proper burn rates. The Hornady manual has loads listed for service rifles separate from regular 30-06 and 308 data. The powder I use the most of is IMR 4895, H4895 and Varget, depending on what I can find. The Sierra manual has a section on loading semi service rifles that is well worth reading. The 308’s can use the 168 grs with proper powders. Some people are using an adjustable gas block to adjust pressure but never felt the need for one if proper powders and bullets are used. My first was a Springfield Danish and second is a build with all Springfield parts. I shoot a minimum of 100 rounds so only way to afford to shoot any amount is to reload.
 
Let's start with a few obvious lessons:

The 7.62 and 30-06 trajectories are not magnitudes apart. The USGI M14 has a sight knob graduated for metric, and is distinguished by a capital letter M.

The only three adjustable sight parts are a narrow National Match front sight, a small aperture rear sight, and a 180-deg rotating rear sight hood. With these, good shooters will be able to walk their group up or down in half increments on the big knob.

The rifle was designed for 150-gr M2 FMJ bullets. The operating rod has several scientifically placed kinks. It is not a good idea to overstress them.

You should expect 2" groups at 100 yds, if you do your part.

When you load your enblocs, up the top round on the right. I slide the cartridge follower to the left with my finger almost as an instinct.

When you load the rounds push them back as far as you can remembering there is a ridge in the enbloc. The last round will be hardest, but not if you rotate it.

When you handle the rifle never around the front handguard. Yes, there is a sheet metal guard/reinforcement inside, but there is very little resistance to a ham-fisted vice grip.

If you want to tighten the rifle in the stock, pinch a few thicknesses of pop can sheet metal under the heel of the receiver (remembering that the U-shape runs around space where the hammer swings).
 
150gr .308 is plenty deadly on deer, I’ve always been a 168-180gr as I hunt bear as well but I have killed a few deer with 150’s and they dropped no different than with 180’s.
 
JL1138 said:
I know nothing about them - but what you have looks like a beaut!
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HKNova6 said:
That’s a beautiful rifle. Congrats on your find!
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thanks


Butcherbill said:
150gr .308 is plenty deadly on deer, I’ve always been a 168-180gr as I hunt bear as well but I have killed a few deer with 150’s and they dropped no different than with 180’s.
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Im sure it does, its just my ruger shoots 0.6 moa with 180gr so that's what I have for deer right now.
 
Basically they like 7.62 NATO pressures (which is also very close to M2 ball). I personally stick with 147grn rounds myself, but I don't think a few 180grn bullets would be the end of the world. Just not the best for the rifle long term. There is no adjustable gas port so it is more that the rifle is designed to work around certain pressures and higher pressure rounds may not function as reliably as well as putting additional stress on the rifle.

I wouldn't mess around with the rear sight, it should work just fine, if it didn't the Italians would have changed it out. Mine is POA, but I have only really shot it at 100m.

Realistic accuracy should be 2-4 MOA, its a old military semi-auto which had the barrel cut back a half inch and rechambered for 7.62 NATO so it isn't exactly the best barrel on it. Mine can consistently hold 2-3 MOA with no issues. Your experiences may vary.
 
The rifle was intended to shoot 7.62x51. I would use .308 hunting ammunition that is comparable.

Bullet weight isn't the issue, so much as gas port pressure. The Garand is a strong action. It is the impulse on the operating rod that should be kept in mind.
 
tiriaq said:
The rifle was intended to shoot 7.62x51. I would use .308 hunting ammunition that is comparable.

Bullet weight isn't the issue, so much as gas port pressure. The Garand is a strong action. It is the impulse on the operating rod that should be kept in mind.
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That's a great explanation of the issue, without much messing around.

It's very important, to use intermediate speed powders if handloading.
 
for the rear sight, every click both elevation and windage is supposed to be 1 moa. If i understand correctly marksman are supposed to keep a score book recording ranges and settings. Depending on your shooting conditions your sight settings never would really match up. there are some old training videos on the m1 that are easy to find and highly recomended that explain all this.

as for the gas thing, normal 7.62x51 will run fine, the original cartridges were loaded much hotter than 7.62x51. If you are paranoid or want to shoot hotter loads you can get adjustable gas plugs for like $100 from the states. I might even have a spare one if you like.
 
I use 150,155, and 165 gr bullets with IMR4895 or IMR4064 in handloads for my Tipo 2 rifles. IMR3031 is a good choice as well. 150 - 165 gr bullets are always a good choice for deer. I like to use 150-165 gr polycarbonate pointed hunting bullets (Hornady SST/Nosler BT) in my Garands on the basis that the tips won't deform on feeding/chambering. These are accurate bullets and are good deer killers with proper placement.

Any Tipo 2 barrel I've had was in near new condition, and I've built around 10 of them. I had my latest build out to the range last week and it shot extremely well with the Nosler 155gr match bullet in handloads with 4895 and 4064.

There are a number of inspection points to ensure proper functioning, and there are a number of ways to tweak the rifle for best accuracy. It boils down to good quality ammo, tight sights and proper stock bedding. Always keep the rifle lubed with grease at specified lube points for proper functioning. Periodically check that the gas plug is tight during shooting.

The rifle won't shoot well with a lose fitting stock. Fore and aft movement can be fixed by glueing thin wood shims on the surfaces wher the rear legs of the receiver seat. Vertical loseness can be fixed by glueing wooden shims on the bottom of the stock where the trigger housing seats. Resistance must be felt when the trigger guard is closed; sometimes the 2 round lugs on the trigger guard are worn flat which requires the guard to be replaced or the stock shimmed. A bit of grease on the lugs prevents excessive wear.

When targetting the rifle I find that a mechanical zero with the rear sight centered and 9 clicks up from the bottom is a good place to start.

There are caveats on handloading for a Garand for safety and proper function. These include always FL case re-sizing, seating primers flush or slightly below flush with the casehead and use of correct propellants and bullet weights. The rifle is hard on brass; don't try to get more than 4-5 firing cycles out of cases.
 
Jahnj0584 said:
thanks



Im sure it does, its just my ruger shoots 0.6 moa with 180gr so that's what I have for deer right now.
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Heavy bullets or powders outside the accepted burn rate are flirting with bending the Garand op-rod. So if you have spare op-rods, then go ahead and use whatever ammo you like. If you don't want to replace a fairly expensive and potentially hard to find op-rod, then maybe pay attention here ... where you asked the question.
 
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