Shooting grouse while big-game hunting - experience of noise on big game?
- Thread starter wasa
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You’re totally correct when saying it doesn’t make any proper sense. Small changes in the laws over the years and changes to the open season dates creates further difficulties.
I used to carry (in the truck) an encased rifle, orange vest and hat while archery moose hunting and a CO said it was fine as long as the rifle was encased in the truck. Another different CO came along and was going to charge me for this exact same thing. I explained my position and after 45 minutes of discussion between him and his office we were allowed to go unscathed but with the warning that after today he would charge me if I didn’t leave the rifle in the camp.
The regs are so confusing at times that different CO’s have different interpretations of them.
So I went through the Ontario Hunting regs yesterday …. the full 94 pages … and I went through the whole 94 pages again today. And I can’t find anything in there that would support your claim.
https://www.ontario.ca/files/2023-05/mnrf-2023-hunting-regulations-summary-en-2023-05-03.pdf
Post #12 (and which is a quote from the Ontario hunting regs, page 91) is saying the following:
If I am hunting small game, legally, and if I have a valid license for large game, and both small game and large game have an open season, then I am allowed to possess, carry and use a center fire rifle or buckshot or slugs, in addition to the firearm/ammunition that I am carrying to hunt small game.
Now, can you please point us to the page and section in the Ontario hunting regs where it is stated that we are not allowed to carry a rimfire (22) or a shotgun (for hunting small game) while hunting large game. That would be appreciated ….
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https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/980665#BK11
77. (1) A person hunting small game, when in an area during an open season in the area for a species of big game, shall not possess or use,
(a) a centre-fire rifle; or
(b) shells loaded with ball or shot larger than number two shot. O. Reg. 49/11, s. 18; O. Reg. 544/17, s. 8.
(1.1) Subsection (1) does not apply to,
(a) a person hunting small game if the person holds a valid licence for the species of big game that has an open season in the area and at the time the person is hunting; or
(b) a person who has a valid licence to hunt wolf or coyote and is hunting wolf or coyote under the authority of that licence. O. Reg. 20/20, s. 17.
(2) Despite clause (1) (b), a holder of a small game licence, when in an area during an open season in the area for a species of big game, may possess and use,
(a) in the case of shot made of steel, shot that is not larger than triple BBB steel shot; or
(b) in the case of shot made of bismuth, shot that is not larger than double BB bismuth shot. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 77 (2).
77. (1) A person hunting small game, when in an area during an open season in the area for a species of big game, shall not possess or use,
(a) a centre-fire rifle; or
(b) shells loaded with ball or shot larger than number two shot. O. Reg. 49/11, s. 18; O. Reg. 544/17, s. 8.
(1.1) Subsection (1) does not apply to,
(a) a person hunting small game if the person holds a valid licence for the species of big game that has an open season in the area and at the time the person is hunting; or
(b) a person who has a valid licence to hunt wolf or coyote and is hunting wolf or coyote under the authority of that licence. O. Reg. 20/20, s. 17.
(2) Despite clause (1) (b), a holder of a small game licence, when in an area during an open season in the area for a species of big game, may possess and use,
(a) in the case of shot made of steel, shot that is not larger than triple BBB steel shot; or
(b) in the case of shot made of bismuth, shot that is not larger than double BB bismuth shot. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 77 (2).
The Family Pak.
Ok, I’ll try to find some info on the subject but it sometimes difficult to find exactly what one is looking for and the Ontario Hunting Regulations Summary are only partial interpretations of the regs at any rate. And then there’s the CO’s interpretation of the regs and they sometimes disagree with each other which further complicates the issue.
Ontario Hunting Regulations Summary
From Pg 46;
“Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (includes bows). When hunting deer,
you may only use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that WMU. For example, when hunting deer during
a bows only season, you may only use and carry bow hunting equipment. Specifications on the firearms, ammunition, arrows and broadheads that are permitted when hunting deer are found in the General Regulations section (begins on p.28).”
A CO’s interpretation of that is only the deer firearm can be carried and used.
From Pg 58;
“Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (includes bows). When hunting deer,
you may only use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that WMU. For example, when hunting deer during
a bows only season, you may only use and carry bow hunting equipment. Specifications on the firearms, ammunition, arrows and broadheads that are permitted when hunting deer are found in the General Regulations section (begins on p.28).”
Similar CO’s interpretation.
From Pg 79;
“Big game, including black bears, may only be hunted with a firearm (includes bows). If you are hunting deer or moose at the same time that you are hunting black bear, you must only use or carry (on your person, in a vehicle or boat) a firearm of the type permitted for deer or moose, as the case may be, at that time in that WMU. Specifications on the firearms, ammunition, arrows and broadheads that are permitted when hunting black bear are found in the General Regulations section (begins on p.28).”
Different wording for the bear firearms in the Summary. This is the wording that a CO that talked to us about how he would interpret and enforce it. He said one can legally only hunt one species at a time and that’s why the Summery states “you must only use or carry (on your person, in a vehicle or boat) a firearm of the type permitted for deer or moose, as the case may be, at that time in that WMU.”
Confusing yes…
Many times I have been out target shooting in random places and when leaving seen deer 50-150 yards away, they are curious.
I once shot at a buck 4 times, hitting the small rise in between us, the 5th shot hit him and dropped him, him and the rest of the herd paid not attention at all to the first 4 shots but immediately took off when he was hit (and dropped).
I once shot at a buck 4 times, hitting the small rise in between us, the 5th shot hit him and dropped him, him and the rest of the herd paid not attention at all to the first 4 shots but immediately took off when he was hit (and dropped).
Well, providing your not bowhunting and other things...lol. It's very messed up.
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In response to the side issue of carrying two firearms while rifle hunting moose or deer in Ontario (shotgun hunters may carry birdshot with them for any small game of opportunity), my understanding is that you can indeed be in open possession of multiple firearms. You can have a centrefire rifle and a shotgun, but not a centrefire rifle and a rimfire rifle. As long as the additional firearm is of a class prescribed for hunting big game, it's good to go; ie, shotguns are permitted firearms for big game hunting, but rimfires are not.
Edit: Apologies for the huge image size...I simply saved and posted the pictures; I didn't realize they would be that large.
Agree with this.
Here it is simplified
Can carry 2 or more firearms with you, but all have to be of legal calibre/style for the big game you are hunting. A 410 shotgun is ok because it is legal for moose with slugs. A 22 mag would not be legal, but a 22 hornet would be, based on the big game calibre rules.
Cannot carry a gun when bow hunting big game in a bow only season.
Can only have one shotgun for migratory birds. (federal).
While turkey hunting, you can carry a rifle for varmints.
Muzzleloader deer season...take 10 MLs if you want to. All can be loaded and ready to go.
Small game is the same...as many as you want.
The confusion all stems from big game seasons. They are worried about a small game hunter shooting a big game animal without a licence, which is foolish IMO.
It's just another one of those stupid rules like having your gun encased after dark.
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You can’t find that rule in the regs because it isn’t there. Some bad and some silly information in this thread. In Ontario, you absolutely can carry a shotgun with birdshot or rimfire rifle AND a centrefire rifle if you want to. Just make sure you have a big game license/tag and the season is open. The problem isn’t hunting small game during big game hunts. The illegal part is having guns and ammo for big game without a licence or season.
You cannot hunt with a centrefire or a shotgun with slugs or buckshot if you don’t have a big game licence/tag or if the licence/tag you have is not in season in that area.
Plenty of folks keep a shotgun in the truck or side by side for small game hunting on the way to or from their deer or moose spot. This has been going on forever in Ontario and it’s never been illegal.
You cannot hunt with a centrefire or a shotgun with slugs or buckshot if you don’t have a big game licence/tag or if the licence/tag you have is not in season in that area.
Plenty of folks keep a shotgun in the truck or side by side for small game hunting on the way to or from their deer or moose spot. This has been going on forever in Ontario and it’s never been illegal.
Re the OP's noise issue: Most of us will have seen deer and/or other game wandering around at the far end of a shooting range without a care in the world. I know someone that was sitting out in a duck boat on opening day, waiting for the sun to come up and finding himself watching fireworks someone was launching. You have to think that was done by hunt saboteurs but he said it didn't seem to have bothered the ducks once it got light.
True enough but I’ll add that if one has a big game archery tag in a bows only season, they can’t have a shotgun for birds on their person or in their vehicle.
We got stopped once while archery hunting large game and the CO didn’t like the pellet gun and had to call the office about it. He was told that it’s ok if it’s below the magic number of fps (I think it’s 495) as it’s not classified as a firearm (yet).
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Back in the day,we used to carry Crossman CO2 pistols under our jackets for popping Grouse while hunting big game. Carrying under a jacket kept the gas cartridge pressure steady. Because the rating was under the 500fps guideline,it wasn't classified as a firearm under the Criminal Code,therefore,it could be carried concealed. I used a shoulder holster. However,under the FWCA,pellet pistols were classified as a firearm. That made rookie CO's nuts. Some tried to conflate the FWCA with the Criminal Code. When challenged in court,cases were summarily dismissed. The confusion exists to this day,sometimes,causing issues with CO's who may not be completely up tp speed.
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- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’ve never noticed any issues shooting small game while out hunting larger game, I see grouse and rabbits on the road all the time while I’m heading to areas where I’ll hunt deer or bear. I’m not passing on putting meat in the freezer, while I’m actively hunting bigger animals I don’t bother as I don’t want the added distraction.
I watch deer on the range or above the berms and they are not bothered by the noise, the last two mule bucks I shot were with packs of does. When they went down the does just stood there for a few moments looking at the buck on the ground, once I move in they bolt.
I watch deer on the range or above the berms and they are not bothered by the noise, the last two mule bucks I shot were with packs of does. When they went down the does just stood there for a few moments looking at the buck on the ground, once I move in they bolt.
Sorry, chum, but this is not right either. You can carry a centerfire rifle without a tag when there is NO OPEN big game season.... however if there is an OPEN season for a big game species ie; moose, deer, bear, you must possess a tag or be a part of a party with a tag and within the restrictions for such a party. There is no restriction on carrying a rimfire or shotgun for small game while big game hunting.
Correct, and I’ll add that if you’re archery hunting big game (bows only season) you can only carry archery equipment. No shotgun or rifle for birds on your person or in your vehicle.
do you need to have a lwayer with you while hunting? that is complicated and not stopping real poachers ...
