FELLOW DEALERS READ THIS: Shocking Fraudulent Transaction!!!!

Shooting Warehouse

Shooting Warehouse

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I wanted to just let some other fellow dealers know what had happened to me recently.

I got an online order from a customer in Montreal, QC in May 2023 for a new Leica Geovid Pro 8x42 worth around $4800 with tax.

My card processor marked the credit card transaction as "low risk, advised to ship order", but I have had several attempted fraudulent transactions all from Quebec (I have GREAT QC customers, so this is not at all aimed at people living in QC, but rather all the scammers that seem to reside there) - so I approached the order with caution like I always do.

From the credit card fraud analysis, everything checked out (see screenshot attached).

I first emailed the customer and told them I would ship Canada Post to their credit card registered address, and the customer was happy with that. I then emailed the customer a few times before shipping, and everything was again verified, and I waited 3 days to ship the package - which I had "arranged" with the customer - this would afford me some time should there be a fraudulent credit card charge, so the "real" customer could see their card was charged fraudulently, but all went smoothly... Or so I thought.

I shipped the product out, sending the customer an email with Canada Post tracking info, and fully insured the package.

Fast forward 3 weeks, and I get an email from the "real" customer, informing me they were the victim of ID fraud, and that they had opened a "case" with Canada Post as well as Montreal Police, and that they had now disputed the transaction with their bank. They had received a card for pickup in their mailbox a couple of days after the package was delivered, and upon going to the Post Office, were told the package had already been collected....

Long story short, I got a $4800 chargeback and lost the money, pending a full investigation. I did everything in my power to ship to the correct address etc etc.

We provided the customers' bank with all the relevant info, shipping labels, email comms between me and the fraudster etc etc, and this morning, the customers' bank sided with the customer (wow, I'm not even shocked by that, as I knew I had NO leg to stand on even though I was 100% correct in everything I did), and I now finally "lost" the $4800.

I am positive the person at Canada Post was involved with this scam, as they needed to have checked ID and get a signature - unless the scammer actually also falsified an ID or drivers license... Who knows.

The police couldn't do anything, and Canada Post shrugged their shoulders, with NO compensation, as the package was "successfully delivered" - even though to a scammer.

I don't know what else one could do as a dealer, but it's made me rethink doing ANY credit card transactions for orders from QC, given I'm had several attempted fraudulent transactions from QC, but got lucky and never actually lost any product.

I hope no other dealers get caught by this - hence me sharing the experience.

Stay well everyone.

Cheers

Robbie

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I just had a package dropped off at my door even though I told them I wanted it left at the Post Office for pickup.....go figure. Then there's the "Signature required" and it isn't my signature - left on my front porch.

Both of these are Canada Post.... What a scam operation they run. I'm sure it would be cheaper to ship through another business especially now with the rates going up in September.
 
Armourall said:
I'm sure it would be cheaper to ship through another business especially now with the rates going up in September.
Click to expand...

I actually almost exclusively use UPS, Puro and Fedex, but they don't always get a signature either, and I didn't want them to leave a $4800 order at the door, so used Canada Post with Card for Pickup as well as Signature required - and still got scammed - and like I said, either the Post Office gave it to the scammers without actually checking ID of the buyer, or the scammers had the customers' ID faked as well... who knows. But lesson learnt.
 
I would suspect the post office as well. In my home town the local mail carrier sold vhs tapes and had a business called “popcorn man” to do so… Turns out he was stealing packages and even sending away for some with those old stamps the record companies would send out for orders. It was hiding in plain sight but the guy seamed like an outstanding person… Anyways, union protected him but his family did relocate! Fraud is everywhere. I’m sorry this happened to you! That’s terrible.
 
pipeliner said:
I would suspect the post office as well. In my home town the local mail carrier sold vhs tapes and had a business called “popcorn man” to do so… Turns out he was stealing packages and even sending away for some with those old stamps the record companies would send out for orders. It was hiding in plain sight but the guy seamed like an outstanding person… Anyways, union protected him but his family did relocate! Fraud is everywhere. I’m sorry this happened to you! That’s terrible.
Click to expand...

I told the customers' bank as well as Montreal Police that I'm pretty sure the Post Office was also involved or were negligent - they should have checked the ID of the person "intercepting" the package when picking up at the post office... And they don't need to see the actual "card left for pickup" - they just need the tracking number (which I obviously sent to the scammers as they used a different GMAIL email address)...

The bottom line here, is card processors charge a 3% fee to merchants, yet the bank NEVER loses money... I understand the real customer here had their identity stolen, but why should the merchant lose the money. So the customer is never ever on the hook, and the merchant takes 100% of the loss. It sucks. Anyway, onward and forward we go. Haha.
 
With FexEx Express, make sure to specify you want the package to be "DSR". Otherwise, yes signatures are *encouraged* but not enforced and the packages can be left outside homes with a picture proof.
 
Shooting Warehouse said:
I wanted to just let some other fellow dealers know what had happened to me recently.

I got an online order from a customer in Montreal, QC in May 2023 for a new Leica Geovid Pro 8x42 worth around $4800 with tax.

My card processor marked the credit card transaction as "low risk, advised to ship order", but I have had several attempted fraudulent transactions all from Quebec (I have GREAT QC customers, so this is not at all aimed at people living in QC, but rather all the scammers that seem to reside there) - so I approached the order with caution like I always do.

From the credit card fraud analysis, everything checked out (see screenshot attached).

I first emailed the customer and told them I would ship Canada Post to their credit card registered address, and the customer was happy with that. I then emailed the customer a few times before shipping, and everything was again verified, and I waited 3 days to ship the package - which I had "arranged" with the customer - this would afford me some time should there be a fraudulent credit card charge, so the "real" customer could see their card was charged fraudulently, but all went smoothly... Or so I thought.

I shipped the product out, sending the customer an email with Canada Post tracking info, and fully insured the package.

Fast forward 3 weeks, and I get an email from the "real" customer, informing me they were the victim of ID fraud, and that they had opened a "case" with Canada Post as well as Montreal Police, and that they had now disputed the transaction with their bank. They had received a card for pickup in their mailbox a couple of days after the package was delivered, and upon going to the Post Office, were told the package had already been collected....

Long story short, I got a $4800 chargeback and lost the money, pending a full investigation. I did everything in my power to ship to the correct address etc etc.

We provided the customers' bank with all the relevant info, shipping labels, email comms between me and the fraudster etc etc, and this morning, the customers' bank sided with the customer (wow, I'm not even shocked by that, as I knew I had NO leg to stand on even though I was 100% correct in everything I did), and I now finally "lost" the $4800.

I am positive the person at Canada Post was involved with this scam, as they needed to have checked ID and get a signature - unless the scammer actually also falsified an ID or drivers license... Who knows.

The police couldn't do anything, and Canada Post shrugged their shoulders, with NO compensation, as the package was "successfully delivered" - even though to a scammer.

I don't know what else one could do as a dealer, but it's made me rethink doing ANY credit card transactions for orders from QC, given I'm had several attempted fraudulent transactions from QC, but got lucky and never actually lost any product.

I hope no other dealers get caught by this - hence me sharing the experience.

Stay well everyone.

Cheers

Robbie

View attachment 699808
Click to expand...

There is a fraud department at the Sûreté du Quebec..you have the ip adress..it can be tracked.
I see it as the package was stolen from the post office..anyway go SQ not Montreal Police (SPVM).
Can you contest the CC company decision ? Good were delivered and picked up after all.

When fraudster get a scam..they try to use it everywhere.
 
Shooting Warehouse said:
I wanted to just let some other fellow dealers know what had happened to me recently.

I got an online order from a customer in Montreal, QC in May 2023 for a new Leica Geovid Pro 8x42 worth around $4800 with tax.

My card processor marked the credit card transaction as "low risk, advised to ship order", but I have had several attempted fraudulent transactions all from Quebec (I have GREAT QC customers, so this is not at all aimed at people living in QC, but rather all the scammers that seem to reside there) - so I approached the order with caution like I always do.

From the credit card fraud analysis, everything checked out (see screenshot attached).

I first emailed the customer and told them I would ship Canada Post to their credit card registered address, and the customer was happy with that. I then emailed the customer a few times before shipping, and everything was again verified, and I waited 3 days to ship the package - which I had "arranged" with the customer - this would afford me some time should there be a fraudulent credit card charge, so the "real" customer could see their card was charged fraudulently, but all went smoothly... Or so I thought.

I shipped the product out, sending the customer an email with Canada Post tracking info, and fully insured the package.

Fast forward 3 weeks, and I get an email from the "real" customer, informing me they were the victim of ID fraud, and that they had opened a "case" with Canada Post as well as Montreal Police, and that they had now disputed the transaction with their bank. They had received a card for pickup in their mailbox a couple of days after the package was delivered, and upon going to the Post Office, were told the package had already been collected....

Long story short, I got a $4800 chargeback and lost the money, pending a full investigation. I did everything in my power to ship to the correct address etc etc.

We provided the customers' bank with all the relevant info, shipping labels, email comms between me and the fraudster etc etc, and this morning, the customers' bank sided with the customer (wow, I'm not even shocked by that, as I knew I had NO leg to stand on even though I was 100% correct in everything I did), and I now finally "lost" the $4800.

I am positive the person at Canada Post was involved with this scam, as they needed to have checked ID and get a signature - unless the scammer actually also falsified an ID or drivers license... Who knows.

The police couldn't do anything, and Canada Post shrugged their shoulders, with NO compensation, as the package was "successfully delivered" - even though to a scammer.

I don't know what else one could do as a dealer, but it's made me rethink doing ANY credit card transactions for orders from QC, given I'm had several attempted fraudulent transactions from QC, but got lucky and never actually lost any product.

I hope no other dealers get caught by this - hence me sharing the experience.

Stay well everyone.

Cheers

Robbie

View attachment 699808
Click to expand...

Plot twist...
The client is the scammer..
This is how they do it now
They use real people and real cards.
Then do a charge back
Optics are easly sold. On eBay and of back to dodgy dealers
Start using air tags and other security devices on high value items.
Also Quebec is when most of this happens.
 
The fraudster could have a fake ID with fake signature on it. I don't think Canada Post have the tool or skill to check whether an ID is fake or not.

I would escalate it with the card issuer and the police. Ask the police to review the camera in the Canada Post location. Surely the camera will pick up the individual who picked up the package. Go to their supervisor.

Second scenario, maybe the post office person is collaborating with the fraudster and they didn't ask for photo ID? Again, this can be verified by looking at the security camera footage if there is any.

Third scenario, what IF the customer pretended that he/she is a victim and disputed it the transaction? If there is no prior claim (maybe that's why the bank approved their claim), then maybe the customer is the victim? Just another possibility.

From cyber crime industry I can attest that Quebec is one of the hubs of all kind of fraudulent transactions. Anything come my way from Quebec, I will use extra due diligence on top of my other extra due diligence. lol
 
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Man that sucks!

You did everything you could and still got ripped off!

There's a special place in hell for thieves.
 
You should keep pursuing this. Not familiar with QC but IIRC the RCMP has a cyber crime unit you can contact to try to get them to investigate. Don’t let this injustice rest.
 
Who’s your Acquirer / Transaction processor? Assuming everything you said is correct, they should have been able to re-present the charge after the chargeback with the evidence that you followed the correct processes…Of course the Issuer bank sides with their customer - your Acquirer/Processor should side with you and worst case it goes to the Credit card payment network for Arbitration. You have a limited time to do this but I’d be questioning your bank and CC processor as to why you are left holding the bag…

Liability for credit card charges always sits with the merchant but shifts back to the customer if the merchant has followed the correct authorization processes…You may even want to speak to legal representation…
 
Years ago when I ran an online webstore I got scammed twice from Quebec. Over $3000 lost to chargebacks. I even waited 2 weeks on the 2nd scam just to make sure.

I learned my lesson and stopped selling to any Quebec postal codes. There's no law against banning a province from sales. It sucked for my QC customers. I did eventually make a few sales over the phone to QC but I made it clear they would need to wait for the transaction to "clear".

Man, I hate scammers!

P.S. American Express kicked me when I had one bad transaction at my physical location! They knew I did everything by the book but didn't care. Good riddance as they charged quite a bit per transaction.
 
Eh get use to this with all the migrants that the turd let In ...they have found a way to. Get around ....
I use to be a letter carrier for Canada post ....and back then the brown people where very sketchy...the parcel theft that went on ....and look at amazon look at there theft ...it’s crazy people follow the vechicals. And when the parcel is dropped off at the door like 2 min later a ca r pulls up and a guy runs for the parcel ......what a world we live in now!
 
My experience with Canada post is they don’t really check ID. I never take my DL out of my wallet for them to see. Just a quick scan to see if the address matches. With the Canada post app and an easily printed fake ID you could pick up any parcel you can get the tracking number for. They also don’t care about the name on the ID, as long as the address matches.
 
I know I'm prob gonna get flak for saying this but would getting the buyers PAL info help in preventing this in the future?
If a thief steals someones credit card info and identity would they also have their PAL number? I guess if they stole a wallet from someone then they prob would have everything
I know you don't need a PAL to buy a scope but it might prevent you from getting ripped off in the future. Maybe only request the PAL on high value products?
I wouldn't like giving my PAL out for something like a scope purchase but if the vendor said it is only to help prevent theft I would be ok with it as long as it wasn't used for Govt tracking purposes
 
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