Rugger PC

With any supersonic ammunition, I agree with you.

But when shooting outdoors, with any standard/subsonic 22LR out of my 24" barrel bolt action, it is seriously quiet. Definitely no hearing protection required. Unless you have some kind of hearing sensitivity issue, I guess.

For 20" barrels, it's probably quiet enough for most people.

I've had what some regard as 'excessive' hearing sensitivity since childhood. I hear things, especially at higher frequencies, better than most. 'Mosquito' alarms they put around mall entrances and schools sometimes, for instance. Old guys like me aren't supposed to hear them, as the noise is designed to repel teenagers so they don't linger. They give me a headache, even 1/2 block away - I contributed to the VSB taking them off the elementary school on the next block, as it was driving me up the wall.

As for .22lr out of a rifle without hearing protection... it sounds like you have suffered considerable hearing loss already, if that is 'quiet' to you. The report from the muzzle of a 24" rifle using CCI SV (subsonic) meters around 150dB, using the correctly calibrated L&D meter and a suitably fast microphone, placed 1 metre to the side, above grass, per US military standard protocol. 150dB isn't 'hearing safe' by any standard. 130dB, which is several orders of magnitude less sound pressure, is still not safe, but can be tolerable for brief sessions. For comparison, CCI SV meters at about 112dB to 114dB from the same type of rifle when using a state-of-the-art commercial suppressor, information shared by various US manufacturers and in US NFA related forums. While still not considered hearing safe, that's low enough that given the very brief duration of the report, it is unlikely to cause damage, even shooting hundreds of shots per week.

People saying variations on .22lr is quiet enough to shoot without protection are generally 'used to it' thanks to having done it enough that their ears no longer have the capacity to hear properly at those frequencies. Or industrial/occupational noise exposure might also be the culprit. Perhaps consider having your hearing checked.
 
...As for .22lr out of a rifle without hearing protection... it sounds like you have suffered considerable hearing loss already, if that is 'quiet' to you. The report from the muzzle of a 24" rifle using CCI SV (subsonic) meters around 150dB, using the correctly calibrated L&D meter and a suitably fast microphone, placed 1 metre to the side, above grass, per US military standard protocol. ...

Sorry to hear about your hearing sensitivity, that stinks. Despite years of noise abuse, I was surprised to learn that my hearing is almost entirely within the normal range (checked early this year). Tinnitus gets me though. Regardless, I'm basing my observations on perception of sound relative to common benchmarks. Your numbers seem really high to me, but I have no way to measure in an absolute sense.

150dB is commonly listed as equivalent to a jet engine taking off (with eardrum rupture as a likely result). 120dB is a chainsaw, hammering a nail, or thunderclap. For gunshot noise, there are other factors at play, like relative position of and orientation to the point of origin, etc..

I can say that for the shooter, standard velocity 22LR out of a 24" bolt action rifle is perceived as about on par with a handclap. Quieter than a slamming door, and definitely quieter than a hard handclap close to your ear. Of course, the shooter is about 30" directly behind the muzzle, the noise is mostly pointed downrange, and there's nothing significant to bounce the sound back toward them.



...People saying variations on .22lr is quiet enough to shoot without protection are generally 'used to it' thanks to having done it enough that their ears no longer have the capacity to hear properly at those frequencies. ...

Regardless of what I said above, I have seen this is very true of "experienced" people with supersonic ammunition. They can't hear the crack anymore and it's easy to assume that nobody else can, either.
 
Nothing to be sorry for, but thanks I guess. My hypersensitive hearing has made my career as a luthier possible, at least in part. I can hear even very subtle changes in tonal quality and power from an instrument, making adjustment to meet a player's needs relatively easy.

Seems I forgot the actual numbers for CCI SV, sorry about that. Just looked it up again, and found this very informative paper by the widely recognized top expert in the field of firearm sound suppression, Philip Dater:

www.larsondavis.com/ContentStore/mktg/LD_Docs/Firearm_Sound_Briefing.pdf

On page 57 (at the default PDF zoom on my browser anyway) there's a small chart showing A-, C-, and Z-weighting (Z = unweighted) metered sound pressure in dB of CCI SV from a Ruger Mk II pistol with a bull barrel, as measured using L&D equipment, the best suited metering ever devised for this very short impulse noise. A = 138.6dB, C = 137.4dB, and Z = 142dB. For one comparison, also listed in that file is a P228 firing a 9mm cartridge, metering around 160dB.

Later in the same document, Dater shows a set of values measured at 1 metre to the side of the muzzle of a 10/22 with CCI SV. That average was 137dB. It is followed by increasing distances in various intervals.

Liberty Suppressors uses the same metering tools, and in a series of tests they ran for general education years ago, they found a pop can being cracked open was 110.5dB, the plastic lid of a CCI SV 100-round plastic box lid being snapped in half metered at 117.2dB. They were being a bit silly and included a couple of other sounds, but those two seem relatively replicable, and were metered at the standard distance of 1 metre.

Industry standard suppressors are generally compared using CCI SV from a 10/22. The action noise/ejection pop is much lower than the muzzle noise, so the semi-auto function doesn't get measured. The very best commercial suppressors have managed to meter the odd shot at about 109dB, here and there, but averages tend to bottom out at around 112dB. The bulk of US-made commercial .22lr suppressors tend to range between about 113dB and 120dB, with testers reporting that anything above about 118dB tends to be a bit hard on the ears, uncomfortable, not painful, if not wearing ear plugs.

This little description of decibel measurements comes from one of the better answers on Quora:

1db is roughly what a person can detect in terms of an increase in volume.

+10db is an apparent double of volume. This means that a person listening to the sound would say that it is twice as loud every 10db.

However, the energy in the sound, that is, the destructive power of the sound DOUBLES every 3db. In fact, when you are preparing a sound system, to add another 3db of volume, you need to double the power of your amplifier (assuming the speakers are rated for the power increase)

So, a 30db drop is cutting the sound if half 10 times. Go ahead and try to fold paper ten times in half. That is the kind of effect. 30db is a VERY significant amount. Most hearing protection is less than 30db and the few that are more are rarely much more. My favorite ear plugs that I use to shoot, mow the lawn, etc are 25db and are VERY comfortable.

That matches the best explanations of decibel levels I've seen in a number of places over the years. The difference in noise between a pistol and rifle barrel is substantial, and the longer the barrel, the quieter the report, within reason. CCI SV generally stops accelerating at about 12" down the bore, with longer barrels actually slowing the bullet for the remainder of the bore. This varies depending on exact bore dimensions, surface smoothness, and twist rate, but in general it's safe to say that a 24" barrel is going to keep a CCI SV bullet subsonic, even in winter when the speed of sound drops substantially, while a pistol or very short rifle barrel may not. And the noise at the muzzle will drop considerably with the longer barrel, as most or all of the powder will be burnt and the pressure inside the barrel has dropped considerably, though it's still a few thousand PSI at the muzzle, when the bullet 'uncorks' that pressure.

According to Philip Dater, the maximum sound considered safe by US MIL-STD-1474D is 140dB. I'd suggest that's a bit high. And others in the shooting industry have often stated that 135-137dB are about the maximum. 140dB is double the sound pressure of 137dB. So I guess from the above measurements of CCI SV from a pistol barrel (he doesn't say the barrel length) is in the 137-142dB range, that would not be at all safe, but from a bolt rifle 24" long, it seems likely to be technically safe, if still annoyingly loud.

I shot an old bolt action .22lr once, when I was about 12 - our stepfather took us out to a gravel pit one afternoon to shoot a few times, just so we knew how to work a rifle... that ending rather quickly as neither me nor my younger brother was at all happy with how loud the thing was. No supersonic crack, so I guess they were subsonic cartridges. But damn, I remember that hurting a lot, my ears ringing for some minutes. That barrel had to be at least 22" long, if not longer. I remember struggling a bit to keep the muzzle up and hold it on target - a beer can, which I missed, though I was a crack shot with my .22" break-barrel pellet rifle and had taken down lots of small game with that.

I guess I'm left a bit puzzled by these various perspectives and data points. Gunfire is loud. Even .22lr is loud any nearer than about 1/2 block away, to my ears anyway. I had custom moulded silicone ear plugs made years ago, for 10 metre air pistol training and competition, the ~495fps pellet from my Pardini pistols being a bit much, indoors, and the crack of some fellow club members' Morini pistols being considerably louder as they tended to tune them up to around 525fps with 7gr pellets. I'd have a headache if I didn't wear those ear plugs. Only one other guy at the club seemed to wear hearing protection - he's currently on our national pistol team in both 10m AP and in .22lr pistol.
 
...with testers reporting that anything above about 118dB tends to be a bit hard on the ears, uncomfortable, not painful, if not wearing ear plugs...

... the noise at the muzzle will drop considerably with the longer barrel, as most or all of the powder will be burnt and the pressure inside the barrel has dropped considerably, though it's still a few thousand PSI at the muzzle, when the bullet 'uncorks' that pressure. ...

Lots of good info there, thanks. Certainly, sound can be measured objectively, but perception of sound is pretty subjective.

We're well off topic, but I'll say that absolutely, CCI SV from a pistol is doing hearing damage. Even CCI Quiet from a pistol is too loud for me.

I consider pressure at the muzzle, or "uncorking pressure", as the most significant factor (setting aside muzzle brakes and anything environmental that reflects sound back toward the shooter). Agreed, airguns can have significant pressure at the muzzle, too. Anything to reduce pressure at the muzzle helps. Though, action noise from a semiauto shouldn't be discounted, it can be like a hammer hitting a nail just inches from your ear.
 
Good point. I remember as a kid, my dad took me to my uncles about getting a dirt bike. To help pick between a cr 60 or a cr 80. My uncle said to get the cr 80 as it will buy him (my dad) a lot more time before I am asking for a cr 125.lol
 
Meh, I rarely shoot any of my 22lr's. They are like airsoft. Lots of old timers here love them, though, maybe you will too. Also, it's a great round to teach your woman to shoot or young kids.
 
Meh, I rarely shoot any of my 22lr's. They are like airsoft. Lots of old timers here love them, though, maybe you will too. Also, it's a great round to teach your woman to shoot or young kids.

Perhaps for urbanites, but for those who have access to some real space, it's the right tool for many jobs.
 
Perhaps for urbanites, but for those who have access to some real space, it's the right tool for many jobs.


This for the win.

So you are out in the bush and spot a rabbit or squirrel, hey mate lets get some meat.. "where is my trusty 9MM carbine" Get real. I know i'll take him with my trusty 30-30. Nothing like tripping through the bush with a 9lb rifle and a 60lb pack. Might run into some small game for supper....

Works great if you never leave the city.

Take Care

Bob
 
Perhaps for urbanites, but for those who have access to some real space, it's the right tool for many jobs.

The .22LR is the forever cartridge. It will be around when the cockroaches take over. Macho types who say they're not fun to shoot, are a minority. Real shooters see the fun and value in owning and shooting .22s. It's the most useful cartridge ever made.
 
The .22LR is the forever cartridge. It will be around when the cockroaches take over. Macho types who say they're not fun to shoot, are a minority. Real shooters see the fun and value in owning and shooting .22s. It's the most useful cartridge ever made.

So sorry Mr "real shooter", please forgive my ignorance. I must have been delirious when I was bored as fu¢k all those years shooting your holy cartridge. I'll dust them off and have the time of my life. Woohoo, I can hardly wait, soon I'll be a "real shooter" too. Yippee.
 
So sorry Mr "real shooter", please forgive my ignorance. I must have been delirious when I was bored as fu¢k all those years shooting your holy cartridge. I'll dust them off and have the time of my life. Woohoo, I can hardly wait, soon I'll be a "real shooter" too. Yippee.
So you have me curious. I will ask you, What is your normal calibre to shoot and where are you shooting with your Big Bang gun?
 
So you have me curious. I will ask you, What is your normal calibre to shoot and where are you shooting with your Big Bang gun?

Not interested in a di¢k measuring contest. The fudds get all uppity when the obvious is pointed out. Shoot your squirrels, .22's are boring and barely a step above air rifles, one should be able to point that out without the oldies freaking out.
 
Not interested in a di¢k measuring contest. The fudds get all uppity when the obvious is pointed out. Shoot your squirrels, .22's are boring and barely a step above air rifles, one should be able to point that out without the oldies freaking out.
LOL even though you were the one to start the "measuring" I didn't think you would be able to answer that. Some of us "oldies" have been, and still are, shooting a full range of calibers, and use the proper gun for proper game. You seem to think that having a big caliber has some sort of image of "manly" strength. Comparing a .22 cal to "barely above the strength of an air rifle" would indicate to me that you don't have enough experience to participate in an informed debate so I will leave it at that and move on.
 
Gindryden ya can't fix stupid. Sometimes it is easier just to use the "Ignore" feature. For some the certainty of youth never leaves them
They stop learning at a very young age, having acquired all the knowledge life has to offer


Take Care

Bob
 
So sorry Mr "real shooter", please forgive my ignorance. I must have been delirious when I was bored as fu¢k all those years shooting your holy cartridge. I'll dust them off and have the time of my life. Woohoo, I can hardly wait, soon I'll be a "real shooter" too. Yippee.

Trigger time is trigger time. .177/.22 pellet air rifle, to .22LR to .50calBMG. But why bother explaining, you wouldn't get it anyway.

Very apt CGN handle, BTW.
 
A rat drops just as dead with a precisely delivered brain shot using a .177" pellet as an elk drops dead using a .308" bullet through the heart. Learn anatomy. Learn to make cloverleaf groups on paper at ranges appropriate to whatever calibre you're shooting with. Every one of these airguns/firearms are just tools for different scales, not much point in di¢k, however much bigmouth seems to enjoy pushing such an effort.
 
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