Tips for people new to military surplus Rifles
- Thread starter leeds10
- Start date
Here's my beef:
I have a dream of one day having a beautiful wood lee enfield.
Cliche, i know, but i'm just a fudd, so i don't care.
I see lots of them advertised, but imagine my horror the day i discovered what "sporterized" actually meant!
I mean, what the bloody hell!
They cut half the wood off!!!!
They basically circumcised the thing!!
I'd love to know
1) who was the first idiot to take a beautiful lee enfield and think "i know what i should do, i should chop the stock in half" . I mean, who was that guy, and where is he buried so i can go piss on it.
And
2) why did so many other people follow that guy? Seriously, why did "sporterizing" become such a thing? What demon impulse took over people to make them do that to so many lee enfields??
I have a dream of one day having a beautiful wood lee enfield.
Cliche, i know, but i'm just a fudd, so i don't care.
I see lots of them advertised, but imagine my horror the day i discovered what "sporterized" actually meant!
I mean, what the bloody hell!
They cut half the wood off!!!!
They basically circumcised the thing!!
I'd love to know
1) who was the first idiot to take a beautiful lee enfield and think "i know what i should do, i should chop the stock in half" . I mean, who was that guy, and where is he buried so i can go piss on it.
And
2) why did so many other people follow that guy? Seriously, why did "sporterizing" become such a thing? What demon impulse took over people to make them do that to so many lee enfields??
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Just my thoughts, and I'm not a military surplus guy.
The best time to buy was 30 years ago, the second best time is now. Just like the saying about planting trees.
Most people get into surplus, because they were really cheap. The ammo was "surplus" and cheap. None of that applies today. Your buying for collectible value.
The best time to buy was 30 years ago, the second best time is now. Just like the saying about planting trees.
Most people get into surplus, because they were really cheap. The ammo was "surplus" and cheap. None of that applies today. Your buying for collectible value.
I got it 2 or 3 years back from another member here. Yes, the thin bakelite PPK grips tend to get brittle, warp, and crack over the years
Yea lol, I think I would have a difficult time finding original PPK grips in similar good condition anyway
The reason both you and OP are of absolutely incorrect option (on what new collectors should be focusing on) is because you don't read books on subject. Including expensive books. Including books in foreign languages. Including in those languages you don't speak but sit and translate word by word trying to understand how many Roth-Steyrs had this very specific marking in this very specific place. Not reading books is not that bad, I don't read books on the subjects I don't care either. But what I also don't do - I don't advise about those subjects.
- Your 2021 M44 was not made in 2021, at least in colloquial sense of "being made" - it is a combination of refurbished old parts (some of them dated to Imperial period of MN), though I don't exclude the possibility that stock might be newly made.
- Polish M44s are not "likely OK", most of them are indeed true factory matching rifles in original unissued condition. This is a fact, not opinion.
- OP is venting out his frustration about "matching K98k" simply because he can't grasp the magnitude of information on the subject. It is advanced topic and though I have a bible from Karem/Steves I still don't know enough to be able to rely on my knowledge. But I have good collector friends who I trust in this subject and they trust me in my subjects. And OP posted the same nonsense in Red rifles forum, clearly he is frustrated.
- For many types of collectible firearms you can tell factory serial number from repair serial numbers from refurbishing serials numbers. Like "TRULY tell". But again, you need to read books. Dig into subject. And just because you and OP can't - it doesn't mean all other are not capable of this. Many ppl can, it's time consuming but rewarding hobby.
- If for you shootability of firearm is THE ONLY criteria of firearm and you're preaching it - then you're Fudd. There are hunters Fudds (who needs AR15?), there are farmers Fudds (who needs anything apart of my utility rifle?), there competitors Fudds (who needs old junk and hunting rifles?), recreational shooters Fudds (who needs what I don't understand or can't afford?), LE Fudds (who needs guns apart of LE) and collector Fudds (who needs modern guns, just let us collect our history artefacts). All of them are Fudds, pick your category. I compete and I collect, however I recognize that farmer or hunter or recreational shooter might and probably will have criteria for firearm selection that are very different from mine. And I respect this. I don't preach them with "here's my wise and insightful advice to you: don't buy mismatched SKS, buy Siberian or WK180 with ten clips, trust me, I have a TikTok channel and have an unboxing video and I fired 20 bullits, the most reliable rifles in the history of mankind".
As a summary, a couple of tips for new milsurplus collectors: keep your mind open, educate yourself, find and do what you like the most just don't be a Fudd, don't listed to Fudds, have respect for other gun owners even if your don't understand their needs and interests in particular guns.
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The fact that there were tens of thousands available for decades in every hardware store coast to coast at a much cheaper price point than factory made hunting rifles. It’s not hard to see why many folks would buy one to better suit the pursuit of feeding their families. Calm your tits, it’s obvious your new enough to guns and like us all don’t even know what ya don’t know
Always go for matching serial numbers especially bolt/receiver. They are not that rare.
Always go for a decent bore - lots of sharp shiney rifling. Anything else is not worth having.
If you don't want to pay the $2 or so per round that ammo costs these days go for a trainer.
Always go for a decent bore - lots of sharp shiney rifling. Anything else is not worth having.
If you don't want to pay the $2 or so per round that ammo costs these days go for a trainer.
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maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There were so many "old army rifles" around after the war, that the stores couldn't sell them. The dealers were having better luck moving inventory if the rifle looked like a commercial rifle, even if a Remington 30 or 722, or Winchester 70 was priced too high.
The Lyman company was making aftermarket sights and bits to the gunsmith trade so Old Bill the gun shop guy could give his customer a handier length, easier to aim deer rifle.
I also like to think there were enough old soldiers around who carried a No.4 in battle, who wanted to hunt, but didn't need to be reminded too much of what that rifle was capable of doing.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There’s some real good fictional reading here! For some of it you need to get the manure shovel.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Recoil shoulder contact and headspace. The No.1 and No.4 bolt locks at the rear and to compensate for manufacturing tolerances, the design has interchangeable bolt heads. (The Brits have been lording the superiority of the Lee Enfield over the world forever, even though it is a triumph of accommodating just in time production by dispersed suppliers.) It is possible to fire with a 00, 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 bolt head. The difference could be tight well sealed headspace or enough slop for the case to blow out and cause an injury. Without the gauges there is no way to test. However, when assembled and delivered from the plant, the bolt head would be properly fitted. Theoretically, no one changed it afterwards. The same variability applies on how the bolt contacts its locking surfaces. A misalignment will twist the bolt or receiver body. If the two left the plant as a pair, it would have been inspected for proper fit.
Further to Lee Enfield bolts...
There are two locking lugs. Both need to seat. If only one lug makes good contact with the locking abutment, the already flexible receiver will flex even more and shooting will be affected. Go to Milsurps.com and research what Peter Laidler has to say about fitting LE bolts
The same applies to two lug front locking actions as well. Shooting is affected if only one lug is taking the load.
If bolts are swapped in an amateur manner, without checking for proper fit, shooting effectiveness can be reduced.
Matching serials mean that when the thing left the factory, it was properly set up.
Just because service rifles were made in large numbers, often under stressful circumstances, it doesn't mean that they were thrown together with indifferent quality control. Sometimes surface appearance and finish standards were relaxed, but effective function was important.
There are two locking lugs. Both need to seat. If only one lug makes good contact with the locking abutment, the already flexible receiver will flex even more and shooting will be affected. Go to Milsurps.com and research what Peter Laidler has to say about fitting LE bolts
The same applies to two lug front locking actions as well. Shooting is affected if only one lug is taking the load.
If bolts are swapped in an amateur manner, without checking for proper fit, shooting effectiveness can be reduced.
Matching serials mean that when the thing left the factory, it was properly set up.
Just because service rifles were made in large numbers, often under stressful circumstances, it doesn't mean that they were thrown together with indifferent quality control. Sometimes surface appearance and finish standards were relaxed, but effective function was important.
So technically if you took a mismatched bolt and different serialized receiver and it passed headspace and a feed test then it should operate correctly no? Maybe not acceptable for let's say a sniper or for extreme accurate but then again a lee enfield was made for regular soldiers so it would satisfy the accuracy requirements for a general service weapon
I agree effective function is important. Ever weapon would have to pass a serviceability check. That would be the point I would figure about mass produced service rifle during a war. Be able to be repaired and parts replaced in the quickest amount of time possible to get an weapon back into service
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I am doing similar here - is a Mauser 98 receiver with a Husqvarna crest on it - so was likely made by FN in Belgium. I unscrewed the 30-06 barrel that was on it and have been fussing to install a 7x57 barrel that once was on an "Alpine" rifle - former owner had the barrel chamber deepened - I do not own a 7x57 reamer, so mucking with my lathe to get that barrel screwed on to correct headspace. The barrelled action showed up with no bolt - so I am using a "sporter" bolt - probably from a Parker Hale rifle at one time - I started the process by checking and lapping those bolt lugs to that receiver - when I started, only one lug was touching to its seat in the receiver.
In a Dave George book here about Boer War - apparently was not uncommon for Boer fighters to abscond with a turned down carbine bolt to use in their long infantry style rifles - just replaced the bolt and used it - no evidence of any checks or fussing - seems to have generally worked out for them. Of course, is probably no records, nor would we be reading about instances when it did NOT work out.
There should be a picture above showing what is likely a Boer rifle from the 1899-1902 War. The receiver and the bolt have different serial numbers. Were made by Leowe in 1896 and shipped to a Boer state - appears to be of the pattern of 1893 patent by Paul Mauser. Both serial numbers were used on rifles made about the same time - that bolt's number was on a carbine rifle, and this rifle itself was an infantry style - which would have had a straight handle bolt. I have no clue if the bolt was swapped out when in action, or during the many decades since that War and now. I have not yet fired it. I have no clue if both lugs bear or not - my intent is to maybe fire it one day, with really "mild" 7x57 hand loads - that is "mild", as in what could be handled by the single lug Norwegian Krag rifles.
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I agree with everything but this. You're forgetting the Enfield has a vent on the left side for the event of a case rupture. By design, gas and material vent with a harmless fart in the rare event of a case failure.
