This may sound dumb so pls be understanding but, I for some reason am fascinated by straight wall cartridges such as the 350 Legend but no one I know uses them. I have no point of reference as I have only started hunting and have only been firing my .270 and my wife's 6.5 Creedmoor. For comparison sake how would the 350 legend stack up for let's say whitetail hunting or am I really comparing apples and oranges or is it close to similar like a .270 to .308 comparison?
350 Legend vs ......
- Thread starter rgp11
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prairie lover
CGN Regular
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- southern MB
Ballistically sub par. It only exists due to some areas in the usa only allowing straight wall rounds for deer hunting.
Ballistically it's not in the same class as .308 or .270 or 6.5 Creedmoor.
That being said, I do think it makes a decent short range, low recoil, deer cartridge, especially when paired with a light, handy carbine. I thoroughly enjoy mine.
That being said, I do think it makes a decent short range, low recoil, deer cartridge, especially when paired with a light, handy carbine. I thoroughly enjoy mine.
The .350 Legemd only males sense for the areas it was designed for... those US states that have straight wall restrictions... everywhere else it is a pointless cartridge... but that doesn't mean it won't work, it simply means that there are much better options in that class of cartridges.
As others have correctly pointed out, one reason for the existence of this cartridge is there are jurisdictions in the USA that only allow straight walled cases for hunting (presumably those creating those laws felt that would limit firearms to magnum handgun cartridges like .357 Maximum, 41 and 44 Magnum, etc). But that isn't the primary reason for creating this cartridge which specifically has a rebated rim.
The more significant part of the cartridge's raison d'être is that it happily functions through the AR-15 platform - and a lot of Americans choose AR-15s as their Everything Platform: 5.56 upper, .22 rimfire upper, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, etc... and now 350 Legend upper. It kind of splits the difference between the 300 blackout and the .450 Bushmaster. The Bushmaster, is also a rebated rim design as is the 350 Legend.
For $300 or slightly less, companies like Bear Creek Arsenals will sell you a complete AR15 upper: pop it on your AR-15, put your chosen sight on it, and go hunting whitetails, hogs, etc. We contemptible Canadians are saved from sullying ourselves and being condemned to Hell for eternity by doing such things by Prime Minister Racist Black Face's edict that there is no sporting use for Evil Baby Killer Assault Weapons like the AR-15.
One fly in the ointment concerning the cartridge is (if I remember correctly) the cartridge is actually designed for a 9mm (.355") bullet versus a 35 caliber (.358") bullet. I haven't been curious enough to look, but I doubt the range of available bullets for reloading 9mm rifle rounds is anywhere close to what is available for .35 caliber.
The more significant part of the cartridge's raison d'être is that it happily functions through the AR-15 platform - and a lot of Americans choose AR-15s as their Everything Platform: 5.56 upper, .22 rimfire upper, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, etc... and now 350 Legend upper. It kind of splits the difference between the 300 blackout and the .450 Bushmaster. The Bushmaster, is also a rebated rim design as is the 350 Legend.
For $300 or slightly less, companies like Bear Creek Arsenals will sell you a complete AR15 upper: pop it on your AR-15, put your chosen sight on it, and go hunting whitetails, hogs, etc. We contemptible Canadians are saved from sullying ourselves and being condemned to Hell for eternity by doing such things by Prime Minister Racist Black Face's edict that there is no sporting use for Evil Baby Killer Assault Weapons like the AR-15.
One fly in the ointment concerning the cartridge is (if I remember correctly) the cartridge is actually designed for a 9mm (.355") bullet versus a 35 caliber (.358") bullet. I haven't been curious enough to look, but I doubt the range of available bullets for reloading 9mm rifle rounds is anywhere close to what is available for .35 caliber.
You aren't likely to find a straight wall cartridge with comparable ballistics to .270/30-06 ballistics.
The .375 Winchester is also a straight walled case; you could always look for one of Winchester or Marlin lever actions chambered in that cartridge. I don't know if bolt actions in that caliber were produced; but a bolt action rechambered for that cartridge would probably be capable of better ballistics than lever actions designed for lower pressure limits. There isn't a huge caliber size difference between the .355" Legend and .375" Winchester.
However, if you feel the love for a .350 Legend due to the straight walled case, and you're Gunnutz enough to do more than basic reloading, you can always ask your favorite pet gunsmith to chamber a .358 caliber barrel to .350 Legend, allowing you the greater selection of 35 caliber bullets for hunting.
An equally gunnutz friend and gunsmith made both of us Mexican Mausers out of bubba'd Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk1 rifles: he ordered a reamer that converted the original .303 British case to a straight walled (tapered) case by carrying the .401" diameter at the shoulder junction all the way to the case mouth. More or less a kind of version of a .40-65 Maynard or 40-70 Sharps in a much stronger bolt action rifle along with much better ballistics for that caliber.
Kind of pointless, other than doing it out of interest and wanting to make something more meaningful out of couple of very good but badly bubba'd Lee Enfields. Split the cost of custom reamer and we got a bit of a break on two sets of custom reloading dies versus buying only one set.
Those rifles rolled a 400 grain cast bullet out the end of the barrel with pretty impressive authority and they grouped pretty well. I had that rifle for years and it filled the role of camp rifle while camping in bear country. A friend who worked for Canada Customs (at the time) who got a posting up to the Alaska border asked me to sell him the rifle for hunting big game there; as far as I know the rifle is still up there somewhere.
If I had a sudden hankering to do all my hunting with a straight walled cartridge out of a bolt gun, I'd do something like that again.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Due to its design constraints, having to run in an AR and having no rim, the .350 Legend by necessity headspaces on the case mouth and this means you’re stuck with taper crimping bullets into the case. It works, but is not as good of system as a proper roll crimp for a straight walled cartridge.
Ballistically, it’s not at all comparable to a .308 and .270. But when you’re stuck with strange rules about straight walled cartridges, and want to get the job done from a black rifle in some US state, then I suppose it makes sense. Up here, it’s a “because it’s different” purchase that doesn’t offer any advantages.
Ballistically, it’s not at all comparable to a .308 and .270. But when you’re stuck with strange rules about straight walled cartridges, and want to get the job done from a black rifle in some US state, then I suppose it makes sense. Up here, it’s a “because it’s different” purchase that doesn’t offer any advantages.
The presence or absence of any kind of crimp has nothing to do with headspacing.
There's no reason you can't roll crimp any straight walled case. If you're crimping, you're reloading. And if you can't trim all your cases to the same OAL prior to seating and crimping, you aren't going to get the best results even if you don't apply any kind of crimp at all and instead rely on how tight the bullet is in the case after being seated.
Huh, didn't know there was a way to do it "right" and roll crimp but still headspace on the mouth. Figured thats why there were taper crimp and roll crimp dies in the first place. Somethin like a 9mm or 45 ACP wouldn't and shouldn't be roll crimped, no matter how well trimmed
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Having designed and built a few wildcats, can assure you it very much does. I dealt with this same problem in a super sized .350 Legend, a .577-500 Jeffery.
Once you have no shoulder and no rim, you have one option left for headspacing; the case mouth. This is how rimless straight wall automatic pistol cartridges headspace. And you can’t put a strong roll crimp them either for reasons that will become obvious if you try.
This isn’t much of a problem until the recoil builds, as in a light carbine and rifle cartridges. Then the recoil without a strong crimp can cause bullet setback or dislodge them. It can be made to work, like the .30 carbine which the military stake crimped to prevent the issue. But it is a highly compromised way of achieving head spacing.
Unless you’re stuck to bizarre rules stateside, there aren’t many good reasons to go this way. As I discovered myself in the .577-500.
I can think of ONE situation where I'd buy a 350 legend: if I stand hunted in a location where shot distances are limited, and I wanted a low recoil option for the kids or wife.
But I neither stand hunt regularly or hunt in places where shot distance is limited...
But I neither stand hunt regularly or hunt in places where shot distance is limited...
Somethin like a 9mm or 45 ACP wouldn't and shouldn't be roll crimped, no matter how well trimmed
And those competing with 9mm and .38 Spl in the pistol class of PPC using roll crimps for accuracy are doing it wrong?
If you're certain your pistol brass is definitively headspacing by the mouth of the case contacting the front of the chamber, go do a casting of that chamber to assure yourself it's actually touching.
And I'll stick with roll crimping my 220 grain 10mm Bear Wrench loads - whether or not the edge of the crimp actually touches the front of the barrel chamber.
Again, PPC and Bullseye shooters using .38 Spl and 9mm autopistols have been using roll crimps over the top edge of wadcutters from long before I bought my very well used and very accurate S&W Model 52 in the mid 1970's. They're specifically doing it to get the best accuracy, meaning they're more concerned with the best and most consistent headspacing from shot to shot, versus whether or not seated bullets move during recoil.
But then, these aren't .577-500 rifles or similar wildcates; these are conventional cartridges that have been used in competition longer than the vast majority here have been alive.
If you believe you can get a consistent OAL case length for headspacing using taper crimping, but you CAN'T do the same if you roll crimp instead, I'm curious to know why. Presumably, whether you roll or taper crimp, the end result is the OAL of the case after crimping is the same within a thou if you properly trimmed your cases beforehand.
Then you can explain to me why the roll crimp I put into hard cast heavy loads for my 10mm Dan Wesson CBOB aren't actually working despite the fact I've owned it for almost 20 years now.
I didn't invent the idea of using a roll crimp instead of a taper crimp for either application with autopistols, BTW - it far precedes me coming along and following what they learned.
For fun and games, drop some empties that were taper crimped and then roll crimped (minus the bullet being seated) into the chamber of your auto pistols and then use a bore scope to see how many of them are actually properly headspacing: i.e. the edge of the case is tight against the front edge of the chamber.
My Dan Wesson came with match chambers in both the .40 S&W and 10mm barrels and neither touch the front edge of the chamber. Ditto the Model 52, although it's the closest of the three barrels. My Browning High Powers aren't even close in comparison, ditto my wife's S&W Shield.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and state that...while I agree with every single comment above regarding the low-performance of the round vs bottleneck cartridges and the lack of a truly practical excuse or need for the 350 Legend in Canada...we should not forget one of the simplest and most valid reasons for trying a new gun or cartridge: because you just like the idea and want to try it.
You state specifically that you are interested...fascinated, actually...by the straight-wall idea. That's a great reason to play with it! Personally, I feel the same way and am forever looking for an excuse to use a .45-70 for hunting or plinking. The .350Legend...or even better, the rimmed .360Buckhammer...have much of the same style and panache of the bigger round, but kick less and should be more comfortable to shoot.
If you must "math to death" every animal you shoot...if you need to extract every last possible fps of velocity and ft-lb of energy from every round you send downrange...if everything must be the fastest/flattest/highest-BC/lowest-drag possible...then you must look elsewhere. If the limitations of a cartridge are as interesting as its attributes...if you can smile at the sound and thump of a big bullet arching downrange and hitting a target, while not fretting if you are forced to admit that sometimes it's just too far to shoot...you might love one of these things.
And don't forget: you're not married to the thing. Buy it, try it, play with it; decide whether or not to keep it, and if don't want to then sell it and move on. Easy-peasy.
You state specifically that you are interested...fascinated, actually...by the straight-wall idea. That's a great reason to play with it! Personally, I feel the same way and am forever looking for an excuse to use a .45-70 for hunting or plinking. The .350Legend...or even better, the rimmed .360Buckhammer...have much of the same style and panache of the bigger round, but kick less and should be more comfortable to shoot.
If you must "math to death" every animal you shoot...if you need to extract every last possible fps of velocity and ft-lb of energy from every round you send downrange...if everything must be the fastest/flattest/highest-BC/lowest-drag possible...then you must look elsewhere. If the limitations of a cartridge are as interesting as its attributes...if you can smile at the sound and thump of a big bullet arching downrange and hitting a target, while not fretting if you are forced to admit that sometimes it's just too far to shoot...you might love one of these things.
And don't forget: you're not married to the thing. Buy it, try it, play with it; decide whether or not to keep it, and if don't want to then sell it and move on. Easy-peasy.
