Comp for 9mm pcc
- Thread starter icecold
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AlphaCharlieDelta
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- The Wet Coast
Yeah, figured Alpining would argue any data presented. He's obviously so closed minded that he's not even willing to entertain that there could be differing answers, like weight and gas forces contributing to a decrease in muzzle rise. I'm going to just exit this thread as there really is no more to say.... Believe what you want.
First, I want to sincerely thank you for taking the time to do your test and making your post about it. I have a great deal of respect for people who do that sort of thing - It's not easy to do it well, and it's a service to the rest of us. Second, I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving the discussion.
I think that disagreement and contrary opinions can be helpful (as long as it doesn't turn into a shouting match). For example, Bob's tenacious defense of his position has forced me to look more closely at the theory and assumptions around this topic, and I'm grateful. If you think that me challenging Bob's assumptions makes me closed minded, well I guess I just disagree.
Whether I like the results or not, no single test will ever be the end of the discussion. That's just the nature of inquiry. In order to know if your test relates to anything more than that one shooter with that rifle on that day, we need to know details. Otherwise questions of validity, reliability, and generalizability go unanswered. If you're not willing to discuss details, then unfortunately your test becomes just another "some guy on the internet who said he did a thing". I'd like for your efforts to count for more. I'd like to discuss your test with you because I'm interested in what ways it is useful.
We already knew that some comps work better than others. Without the weights of the comps tested, your observations tell us nothing at all about the comp vs. equivalent muzzle weight question. It's a bit ironic that at this point, the only "new" observation from your results is that 3oz of dead weight attached to the muzzle does have a significant effect on muzzle rise.
That part there. /Thread.
If there are ANY gasses coming out of the ports on a comp, it will contribute to the reduction of muzzle flip or felt recoil. The effect will be reduced as the gas pressure drops, but it WILL contribute, all the way until the pressure drops to zero. Testing not required, that's just logic. And if you're gonna thread something on to the end of your gun, it might as well be a comp vs a chunk of metal, it WILL be better, even if only slightly.
If you want to see what a real comp on a PCC looks and works like, google Max Leograndis. I've seen him shoot at some matches we were at in the US and it is mind-blowing when you can run proper PCC's not the neutered garbage we are stuck with here now.
Fully agree with this part.
Them shorter barrels really fuel the comp, for sure. Of course, that guy has technique out the wazoo and could probably win matches using a staple gun. Put technique and technology together and wow. Recently added series on JP Rifles' Youtube, "Max Leograndis PCC Training":
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT_Hxcq-wFbIR0AQkmYWiUIw9RINCYl-J
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My Devinci arrived the other day and it does work better on my 10" FX9 than the Tendemkross did. I am torn as to putting the Devinci on my 18.5" Raven and leaving the Tendemkross on my 10" FX9. I intend to put the replaced Tendemkross on my 18.5" FX9 upper. The only time I might use the FX9 18.5" is of I take it to the US along with my Raven9 using the former as backup. The leveling of the barrel under recoil really doesn't help my scoring much as I am pretty slow (inept) either way but still having loads of fun so.....
Take Care
Bob
ps Can't say enough good things about Dave at Devinci. Great company, great service you can deal with Devinci with confidence direct.
This was some testing I did initially with a comp design I had access to for the PCC. This is the same as our National IPSC PCC champion uses.
the conclusion I found was the following. to reduce muzzle flip you can use a longer barrel or weight, but a comp WILL effectively reduce muzzle flip. I also did a test to see how much gasses would go throught the comp, I wrapped the comp with a few layers of masking tape and got the following resaults in the above pictures. There are plety of gasses available to make the comp work with regular 124 grain factory ammo, but the recoil is quite noticible. That is where a good buffer system will help you. I use a Kynshot hydraulic buffer whereas Taylor uses a Schleer roller buffer.
The ammo really helps too, the FH ammo that Taylor uses is about 138/139 power factor.
I did extensive testing with many different powders to find the final result I was satisfied with. As I have over 30 years experience reloading for Open Guns in IPSC, I found the PCC is a completely different animal trying to tweak a load for 133 power factor vs a 173 power factor. For open guns we want a light projectile with a slow burning powder to maximize gasses, but I found that with a PCC (10") that a lighter projectile gave the better amount of gasses to get the comp to move. This was most likely with the help of a good buffer system for the blowback PCC.
My pet load
There are other videos with other powders tested too.
There is a noticable reduction in muzzle flip when I used custom ammo that was specifically 133 power factor, that allowed amazing dot tracking. The dot literally did not move in the optic.
PCC is NOT a crime !
I just got my next shipment of these comps in the mail as I type.
Taylor's Raven next to my FX-9 during testing.
When I get my hydraulic buffer I'll see about getting down to 140 PF. I need 135 for IDPA. It isn't easy using 124 gr bullets and still have the gun run properly. I need to get there with both the 10 inch and 18.5" barrels. Any help us8ng Hogdon powders would be appreciated. Answer by pm if it is super secret.
Take Care
Bob
Take Care
Bob
I run 3.6 grains VV310 with Campro 121 RNHB to get 133 pf.
I run 121’s with my open gun and didn’t want to have another projectile weight to screw with. Some of people I recommended n310 to have used 124 Campros, but I wouldn’t run anything heavier than that due to the drop at distances.
AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
Thanks for the back up data madcow, I appreciate your knowledge and diligence when it comes to helping perfect PCC... now that being said... where's mah Apex Fusion!!! lol
Cant wait for that bad boy, such a gorgeous optic.
Cant wait for that bad boy, such a gorgeous optic.
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Apex Fusions should be out sept/Oct unfortunately, they are still fine tuning them.
I definately love mine, that it will replace my Sig Romeo 3max next season.
PCC is Not a crime, but PPC might be
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AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
Jesus... what a terrible typo. Immediately corrected
juancarlos
CGN frequent flyer
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- The Island
Will this work in a Raven 9?
